NICS "Further Review"

[petrophase]

I had a strange experience today, was wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience.

I went to pick up my layaway, a handgun. I was right next to the guy when he called in my 4473. I wasn't really paying attention as I've had around two dozen 4473s called in in the last three years that I've been buying guns. Then I heard him repeat "further review." After about 30 seconds he repeated "proceed" and we completed the sale. As far as I know, I've never had a delay of any kind, so this further review thing threw me. I asked the salesman about it and he said that almost as soon as the voice on the other end of the line said "further review," another voice came on and said "proceed."

As far as I know, I have no criminal record, aside from a couple speeding tickets. Two months ago I was cleared for a government photo ID (not a security clearance, just an ID), for my federal job, which required a fairly in-depth FBI background check. I also hold a CCP for my home state of SD.
Why would I get this further review thing, and why would they come back in seconds and say proceed? I always include my SSN on the 4473, wouldn't that prevent mis-identification?

This was at my local shop, at about 5:45 PM, MTN time, on a Wednesday.

The only thing I can think of is that I recently changed my address and this was the first 4473 I'd filled out since, but again, isn't that what the SSN is for?

Since the sale was able to proceed, I'm assuming I'm righteous, but the whole thing was disconcerting.

 

[Archie]

Conjecture only - but I'm retired from federal service - the reviewing office possibly noted a note with your name/SSAN saying "FBI inquiry".

Then he noted the coding which means 'routine inquiry for background check purposes' and realized it wasn't anything derogatory.

That would have been the 'further review'.

Like I said, it's conjecture. But I have an idea of how the system works.

 

[cardinalfan]

Could this have anything to do with the number of guns purchased over the last 3 years?
Seems like 24 in 36 months could set off an alarm.

 

[highorder]

Archie is likely correct.

Your firearm purchase history has nothing to do with it.

 

[45_auto]

Every one of my 4473 transactions over the last few years has gone through the "further review" process. Takes an additional 30 seconds each time.

Most likely someone with a similar last name made it into one of the many databases used by the NICS. Your 4473 has to be bumped up a level to someone who has access to more protected info (to verify that you're not that person) than the call center person.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics/general-information/fact-sheet

If the NICS returns a match of the prospective firearm transferee’s descriptive information to that of record information located in any of the databases, the FFL is advised that the transaction is delayed. While the FFL is still on the telephone, the call is placed on hold and transferred to the NICS Section in Clarksburg, West Virginia, for a quick review and evaluation by a NICS Legal Instruments Examiner (NICS Examiner). If the record information returned by the NICS presents a valid match to the descriptive information of the prospective firearm transferee, the NICS Examiners, who have access to protected information (as opposed to Call Center personnel who do not have such access) review the information to determine if state and/or federal firearm prohibitive criteria exists. If the information matched by the NICS is not a valid match or no prohibitive criteria exists, the NICS Examiner will advise the FFL they may PROCEED with the firearm transaction.

 

[Bubbles]

Number and types of guns purchased has nothing to do it. Most likely something has changed, e.g. there's someone with a very similar name/DOB/POB/etc. who was recently entered as a prohibited person, the computer couldn't resolve it, so a person had to check your stats against the other record to make sure that you weren't prohibited.

 

[mgmorden]

This happened to me last time too. It's probably as 45_auto says. I know specifically that I have an evil twin: same first and last name, same exact birthday, same city of birth. The middle name and naturally SSN are different. My "evil twin" has very bad financial problems (I get his collection notices sometimes - though due to the SSN they never show up on my report so I don't much care), and during a traffic stop where the cop was confused for a bit I learned that he had been to jail on a narcotics charge.

Last time happened just as you said - "further review", then shortly thereafter "Proceeed". Just a hunch on how these things work, but my guess is that "further review" is going as far as they can without using the SSN, so they need to do another lookup using that. If you get the "further review" with the SSN listed my guess is you'd get a delay or a deny if you failed to list it.

 

[dogtown tom]

petrophase ....I was right next to the guy when he called in my 4473. I wasn't really paying attention as I've had around two dozen 4473s called in in the last three years that I've been buying guns. Then I heard him repeat "further review." After about 30 seconds he repeated "proceed" and we completed the sale. As far as I know, I've never had a delay of any kind, so this further review thing threw me. I asked the salesman about it and he said that almost as soon as the voice on the other end of the line said "further review," another voice came on and said "proceed."

When a dealer calls in an FBI NICS check the initial call is taken by a customer service rep. The CSR will ask last name, first name, middle name, cadence (jr, sr III), place of birth, ht, wt, gender, birth date, Social Security #, race, state of residence, citzenship and then "type of firearm?".

The CSR will then give the dealer the NTN (NICS transaction number) followed by a response that the transaction may "Proceed" or that the transaction requires "Further Review" from a NICS Examiner (authorized to access additional records). The CSR will ask the dealer to confirm the status they just said five seconds before....that's why you heard the dealer repeat "further review"......then the CSR transfers the call to a NICS Examiner.

The NICS Examiner will ask for the NTN and usually says "do you mind holding?" typically they take less than a minute to review the customers information and compare it to their database. Depending on what information is found, then the NICS Examiner will give a Proceed, Denied or Delayed response. If the response is a Delay, the NICS Examiner will say " the Brady Law does not prohibit the transfer of this firearm after xx/xx/2011". If the response is a Denied, they will not tell the dealer or customer over the phone why the transaction was denied....the dealer gives the customer the NTN and a NICS Appeals brochure. the customer would then contact the FBI for the reason for his Denied response.

As far as I know, I have no criminal record, aside from a couple speeding tickets. Two months ago I was cleared for a government photo ID (not a security clearance, just an ID), for my federal job, which required a fairly in-depth FBI background check.....Why would I get this further review thing, and why would they come back in seconds and say proceed? I always include my SSN on the 4473, wouldn't that prevent mis-identification?

I have several customers who ALWAYS get a Delay, even with their SSN written in. Sometimes the NICS Examiner will need to check state records that may not be available when the NICS call was made.

Top secret clearances, previous FBI checks, LEO, whatever......none have any bearing on an FBI NICS check. By law, the FBI CANNOT save your information unless you request they do so. By law the information submitted today is deleted at the close of the NICS business day for all "Proceed" transactions. Transactions that resulted in a "Delay" will stay active until that transaction results in a "Proceed" (and then deleted at the end of that NICS business day. All transactions that resulted in a "Denied" response have the information saved per Federal law.

I also hold a CCP for my home state of SD.

At present a South Dakota permit is not an exemption to the FBI NICS check. this may be due to the level of the background check that SD does for permits or to the length of time the permit is valid...."lifetime" permits for example (from any state) are not valid as an exemption to NICS.

The only thing I can think of is that I recently changed my address and this was the first 4473 I'd filled out since, but again, isn't that what the SSN is for?

FBI NICS doesn't ask for your street address. If you moved to another state, yet wrote down your former state as the "state of residence" then you would only be permtted to purchase a rifle or shotgun.

 

[kd7nqb]

This happened to me when I bought my LCP in September here is the thread I started about it then.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=616045

my guess is that it happened to me because this is the first gun I bought since I moved to Washington.

 

[Onward Allusion]

petrophase
NICS "Further Review"

Completely different take on this 'cause this happens to us on a recurring basis in VoIP environments.

They probably had a glitch in their IVR (interactive voice response) script or their phone system - voice echo/bleed-over.

 

[petrophase]

Thanks for your replies, guys! So the whole thing could have just been a glitch or spelling error? My last name is not common or uncommon, but I've noticed that people tend to mishear it over the phone...

 

[rdsmith3]

I'm really not looking forward to this. I'm going through the state of NJ process now. I have a very common name, and I already know from the NJ background check that there is a guy wanted in Colorado who has the same name (even the middle name) and his Social Security number is close to mine. He is one inch shorter.

 

[northark147]

It happens to me every time I purchase a firearm on a weekday. Further review, and 30 seconds later Proceed. When I try and purchase a firearm on a weekend, I get Delay. If I don't fill in my SSN, I get delay. This seemed to start happening about 2 years ago when I got my TWIC card, so I assume it does have something to do with a note being in the computer that homeland security ran a BG Check on me. As I am not home much and only for 3 day periods of time, I either have gotten used to picking up my firearm 3 weeks later if I'm not using my normal dealer. If I use my normal dealer, Its normally because I have had them order it in, so I fill out the 4473 at the time I place the order, and call them to remind them to process it a few day before I get home. They were telling me last time how the ATF guy game by, noticed and gave them a little crap about doing it that way, but was ok with it after they explained the situation.

 

[Ryanxia]

Don't rule out the possibility that in your particular situation someone in training was just new and was looking at the wrong thing on the screen or playing it safe.

 

[D94R]

When a dealer calls in an FBI NICS check the initial call is taken by a customer service rep. The CSR will ask last name, first name, middle name, cadence (jr, sr III), place of birth, ht, wt, gender, birth date, Social Security #, race, state of residence, citzenship and then "type of firearm?".

FWIW, I just picked up a used 1911. The only things my dealer answered were full name, my carry ID number, and type of firearm. Nothing else. Makes me realize putting my SS# on any 4473 in the future is not needed.

 

[Archie]

If it's any comfort to anyone, I've got a 'biographical data near miss evil twin' on file. I've never met him, but his last name is the same as mine, first and middle same initials, DOB close enough.

He was wanted on a murder charge for awhile. Our physical descriptions and residence areas are quite different, happily.

 

[dogtown tom]

D94R Quote:

Originally Posted by dogtown tom
When a dealer calls in an FBI NICS check the initial call is taken by a customer service rep. The CSR will ask last name, first name, middle name, cadence (jr, sr III), place of birth, ht, wt, gender, birth date, Social Security #, race, state of residence, citzenship and then "type of firearm?".

FWIW, I just picked up a used 1911. The only things my dealer answered were full name, my carry ID number, and type of firearm. Nothing else....

Thats because he didn't call NICS. You live in Utah....look at the NICS map above and you'll see that the red states call a state POC (point of contact), not the FBI NICS.

 

[medalguy]

Don't worry too much about the delay response. I have had numerous background checks during my 22 years in the Air Force, always top secret clearances, then government contractor after that, and I hold a Texas CHL and Utah CHL.

I have a second home in New Mexico and every time I buy a gun there I ALWAYS get a delay. Sometimes it's a few minutes, sometimes next day. I have just learned to live with it, no reason to get a UPIN really.

Nice thing about living in Texas is that if you hold a valid CHL no NICS check has to be done. Just show your card and walk out with the gun.

 

[ShawnC]

They probably were suspicious because you were not giving your guns away to a Drug Cartel. It helps to be involved with the Sinaloa boys.

 

[D94R]

dogtown, I see now. I guess I didn't understand the chart at first glimpse, and I assumed that even if going through a POC, they were still performing a NICS check.

Kinda makes you wonder the validity of all the "data" they have if not all checks are going/coming from the same people.

 

[dogtown tom]

D94R dogtown, I see now. I guess I didn't understand the chart at first glimpse, and I assumed that even if going through a POC, they were still performing a NICS check.

Kinda makes you wonder the validity of all the "data" they have if not all checks are going/coming from the same people.

The worst part is dealers in POC states often are charged for every Brady check they perform.....proceed or deny.

The FBI NICS check is a toll free call and a free service available seventeen hours a day, Monday through Friday, every day of the year except Christmas Day.. Its pathetic that some states chose to opt out and duplicate what the FBI does for free.

 

[NavyLCDR]

The FBI NICS check is a toll free call and a free service available seventeen hours a day, Monday through Friday, every day of the year except Christmas Day

Ummmmm..... can I ask which is it, please? "Monday through Friday" or "every day of the year except Christmas Day"?

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I'm really not looking forward to this. I'm going through the state of NJ process now. I have a very common name, and I already know from the NJ background check that there is a guy wanted in Colorado who has the same name (even the middle name) and his Social Security number is close to mine. He is one inch shorter.

Apply for one of those PIN numbers that only you know to ID yourself as you when buying guns.

 

[dogtown tom]

NavyLCDR
Ummmmm..... can I ask which is it, please? "Monday through Friday" or "every day of the year except Christmas Day"?

It's both

 

[JSpear]

I get delayed a lot also, just got delayed on my last 2 purchases. Oh well, 5 more days then I can pick them up!