Nit-picking Col. Cooper's Third Rule

[jrpbullrider]

I know I need to be shot, I am going thru Gun Rules with a friends who knows nothing about guns. He do not own any nor want any But I am telling him all of the good things. He saw this post and asked what are the rules they are talking about, he said that is # 3 what are the rest? Right now I can not remember the 4 rules, My brain is not working right now and I do not want to give him the wrong info. I told him that some one here will write them out so he can see them, and that 99.999% of gun owners are good guys.
Thanks and I know i should know them off the top of my head.
John

 

[woerm]

resting on slide

trigger finger on slide or cylinder/stock

if it's not time to shoot finger is not on trigger period

 

[El Tejon]

I'd keep my finger finger on the weapon. I've seen people slap the trigger when it is off floating in space especially when they trip or fall.

That said, as long as your finger is off the trigger, you are golden.

(Rule 3 is known as the Golden Rule)

John,

1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never point the muzzle at anything you do not want destroyed.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on target and you are ready to fire.
4. Be certain of your target and what is behind it.

 

[Blackbeard]

A little of both -- sometimes touching, sometimes not. Usually touching the frame above the trigger. My thinking is that it's less likely to go where it wants to (the trigger) if it has somewhere else to sit. If it's out in the air it takes conscious effort to keep it there.

 

[freakshow10mm]

On a Glock, my finger touches the take down release thingie on the right side of the gun.

On a 1911, my finger touches the slide lock bump thingie on the right side of the gun.

On a revolver, my finger touches the bottom of the cylinder on the right side of the gun.

 

[SSN Vet]

my taurus has a scalloped recess in the frame, I rest my trigger finger there until I am on target

ditto for me.....

I'm not sure I see an issue here....

if it's possible that my index finger can slip off the side of the receiver from it's reference indent and accidetally pull the trigger, is it not also possible that my middle finger could slip up over the trigger guard and inadvertantly pull the trigger????

what's next....

no wearing flip-flops while handling firearms?

 

[jrpbullrider]

Thanks El Tejon
I just not remember the words for them.
My finger is on the gun and down the side of it just above the trigger.
John

 

[Cosmoline]

Your poll questions are loaded. Cooper's rule is overbroad:

KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET

I would argue that with a DA revolver you'd best have your finger on the trigger whenever it appears likely you will need to fire. A wheelgun is NOT a 1911. The balance is different, the trigger is different and the firing dynamics are different. The trigger weight is 10 or more times heavier than one of Cooper's 1911 triggers, and if you don't keep finger on trigger in the runup to a shooting you put yourself at an enormous disadvantage. That doesn't mean you should run around fingering the thing. You simply keep your finger in the guard if it appears likely you will need to shoot. Otherwise you'll have to readjust your grip, move your finger into the guard, readjust again, and then finally start the long stroke for firing. All AFTER you have the target in sights. That's nuts.

I've never seen a competition DA shooter who actually keeps finger out of guard until the sights are on the target. They pick up or draw the weapon with their finger in the guard, ready to fire. The revolver is part of their fist. A 1911 is of course different, and keeping anything inside the triggerguard prior to shooting is foolish. Plus, with the balance further back the trigger finger can be shifted without readjusting the grip.

My third rule for DA revolvers:

KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOU ARE ABOUT TO FIRE.

Thus, Jerry here is about to fire though his sights are not on target, yet look where his finger is going:

 

[rcmodel]

On the frame or slide stop pin above the trigger-guard.

A persons reflex action when startled is for the fingers to curl into a fist, or grasp whatever you have in your hand tighter.
In this case, a loaded gun!

If your finger is waving around out there beside the trigger-guard, and you trip, or are scared enough, you may slap the trigger by reflex.

Best to have it resting on something above the guard, so if it jerks or flex's unconsciously, it's not going to be doing it against the trigger.

rcmodel

 

[El Tejon]

Cos, I use both so I follow Rule #3. I'm not as smart or good as Jerry.

 

[Cosmoline]

My point is that the long, heavy pull of a DA revolver is itself a safety feature that allows you to have finger inside the guard in circumstances where that would be very ill-advised with a pistol. Specifically in the runup to firing. It's a different firearm and you have to use common sense. I've experimented waiting until sights were on target to get my finger in the guard, and it's convinced me not to try it if my life is in danger. It takes way too much time and the sights waver all over while I'm doing it.

Also, remember that Cooper's third law didn't exist when many of these DA revolver frames were designed. For example try picking up a Police Positive Special without letting your index finger go inside the guard. It requires some difficult stretching with that small thin grip. Folks back then just kept a finger in the guard. The weight of the trigger and a thumb to block the external hammer prevented accidental discharge.

 

[Winchester 73]

On the frame,just above the trigger guard.

 

[jrpbullrider]

I don't know if it is right or wrong but my finger is on the "DA" revolver just above the trigger and I have been doing this for years on the job or off.
Just my .02
John

 

[El Tejon]

Also, remember that Cooper's third law didn't exist when many of these DA revolver frames were designed.

Clint Smith painted The Four Rules signs at API circa 1979. Those DA revolver frames were alive and kickin'.

 

[Kind of Blued]

The responses are about as I suspected.

I actually realized that when shooting at the range, I keep my finger on the frame until ready to shoot, however, when I am unholstering or clearning a gun, I keep my finger out in mid-air. The difference is that in the latter situation, I am moving slowly and watching my hands while I use them.

 

[Ltlabner]

My point is that the long, heavy pull of a DA revolver is itself a safety feature that allows you to have finger inside the guard in circumstances where that would be very ill-advised with a pistol.

Human hand can exert 22lbs of force when under stress.

I highly doubt your DA revolver has a trigger heavier than 22lbs.

 

[blackcash88]

Slide stop pin protruding through the right side of the frame.

 

[Cosmoline]

Human hand can exert 22lbs of force when under stress.

What does that even mean? Where did you get it from?

If my finger is jerking with 22lbs of force without my say so I've got bigger problems. Probably some neuro degenerative condition.

I've kept my finger in the guard of my wheelguns when approaching beasties and strange poundings at the door. Never had a problem with the finger jerking out of control and capping off rounds. If I did the thumb would be there to stop it. Moreover, I have the firearm aimed at the ground.

 

[SSN Vet]

tell 'em Cos.....

 

[Ltlabner]

What does that even mean? Where did you get it from?

That when your hand squeezes it can exert upwards of 22lbs of force. Because of the sympatheic responce your finger will tend to move as well. Unless your trigger takes more than 22lbs to pull it, it will move and perhaps discharge the weapon. Your hand can sqeeze tighter for a number of reasons; stress, being started or even tripping.

Got it from a 3 day training class I took this past weekend from an instructor that has studied shooting and self defense issues for 20+ years.

A second common cause of accidental discharges is when the gun-handler places his finger on the trigger before he has decided to shoot. With the finger so positioned, many activities may cause the finger to compress the trigger unintentionally. For example, if one attempts to holster the firearm with finger on trigger, the holster edge will drive the finger onto the trigger, and discharge is likely. If one stumbles or struggles (with an adversary) with finger on trigger, the grasping motion of both hands will likely cause the trigger finger to compress the trigger.

From here...

If my finger is jerking with 22lbs of force without my say so I've got bigger problems. Probably some neuro degenerative condition.

Without regard to the actual number of pounds exerted, AD's have been shown by trained police officers using automatics and revolvers due to being started, tripping or mearly just overgriping during stress. Has happened for years.

Certinally it takes more force generally to move the DA revolver trigger than say a Glock or 1911. But the body does interesting things under stress and it's still possible (I'd agrue likely, but that's only my opinion) that you could AD a DAO revolver.

 

[Kind of Blued]

I don't own any DA revolvers, so I can't add to that conversations, but whoever it was that said that a 1911 has a trigger pull 10X lighter than a DA revolver might want to do the math on that.

 

[Charles W Webb]

i put my finger on the trigger cuz im gangsta and it makes me cuuler!

Ok fun had, I do both of what the op said. Sometimes I have my finger not touching the firearm at all and sometimes I rest it along the trigger guard parallel to the receiver with no force. That way if I need to pull the trigger, finger comes straight back and is against the trigger ready. I also have big hands

 

[Cosmoline]

whoever it was that said that a 1911 has a trigger pull 10X lighter than a DA revolver might want to do the math on that.

Than my nagant, anyway ;-) For a Ruger it would be over twice as much weight, with a longer length of travel.

 

[jakemccoy]

The Four Safety Rules have exceptions if you're professional enough...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhIJOVD8hwY

 

[neapoi]

I keep my finger flat against the frame when not on the trigger. There's this great place on my Baby Eagle that my finger just slides onto.