No owning black powder in Jersey

[bullzeye8]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...owner-creating-risk-widespread-injury-damage/

this is one of the most ridiculous ones I have seen yet. He is being arrested because having over 200 guns (which it even says were locked away in 5 large gun vaults, and 300 lbs of black powder so he can shoot his guns. All of that was confiscated even though he didn't even get arrested for felony gun charges. He got arrested because he, "recklessly creates a risk of widespread injury or damage commits a crime of the fourth degree, even if no such injury or damage occurs”. That is the most ridiculous law I have heard of and think of how much money worth of guns and powder he just lost and will hopefully get back. Even worse though they evacuated the nearby houses and blocked off the street while they removed the powder and guns from the house.

 

[Drail]

That would be some of that good ol "preemptive" justice that so popular with politicians these days (especially if you head north and east). Lock everybody up before they can commit a crime. What could possibly go wrong with that kind of "logic" and "common sense"? Think of all the children that could be saved.

 

[rcmodel]

IMO: 300 pounds of black powder it enough to blow a big hole in the ground where Jersey used to be!

That's WAY more BP then anyone could logically use shooting a few BP guns in most of a lifetime!

Myself?
If I found out my neighbor had 300 pounds of BP stored in his house next to me?

I would call the cops myself!
Or move, and wait for the news story of the huge explosion eventually.

If the man didn't have that much BP properly stored in an underground powder magazine?
He was a danger to everyone around him, and should have been taken out of circulation.

rc

 

[docsleepy]

Where exactly does it say it was BLACK Powder?

The picture in the cited article isn't that good, but I think I see at least a pound of IMR 4064, which is smokeless powder.

Florida Statutes 552.241 allows citizens 150 lbs of smokeless powder, and 25 lbs of black powder.

 

[docsleepy]

Commenters on the original article indicate there was a misprint.

They also note that in their view, most of the powder in the photo is SMOKELESS powder.

His stash of black powder appears to have been slightly over the NJ limit, and over the Florida limit.

So you need to go to all this to-do over being a few pounds over a limit? Why not just discard those over the limit?

On the other hand, we could bring in the MRAPs, get some snipers, protect the perimter with some riot gear armored SWAT troops, and toss some tear gas for good measure......right?

 

[Tom488]

First... the guns were removed from the house incident to an act of domestic violence. I know - he was the victim, not the perpetrator... but that's how it is in NJ. Standard procedure is to remove any firearms when an act of DV occurs.

He was uncooperative with that (understandably - I'd be pissed, too), so they called in the FD to crack open the safes. He was said to have 300 lbs. of black powder. While I'm a bit skeptical at that amount... NJ law only allows storage of 5 lbs. of black powder (and 36 lbs. of smokeless). To store more than that requires an explosives storage permit.

As RC said... if he indeed had 300 lbs. - that's enough to leave a small crater where his house used to be - endangering the surrounding houses, as well. Hence the charge of "creating a risk of widespread injury or damage".

EDIT: Okay - in a shocking turn of events, it appears the writer got some of the facts wrong (insert Gomer Pyle, "sur-prise, sur-prise, sur-prise" audio here). From the photo, it does appear that most of it was smokeless powder. However, I'm pretty sure he was over the limit on black powder (5 lbs) as well as smokeless (36 lbs). They certainly have him on the permit violation. He may have a decent defense against the "widespread injury and damage" charge. But, as discussed below, he has bigger problems looming:

The M1 Carbine one officer was photographed carting out of the house ain't gonna do him any favors, either... that's an illegal "assault firearm" here in NJ - and will land the guy 3-5 years in state prison, regardless of how the rest of the charges work out.

Moral of this story? In NJ, you can either have guns, or a wife... never both. Personally? I vote for guns.

 

[rszwieg]

And.. NJs laws suck?

Leave now.

 

[SleazyRider]

I have oftentimes wondered what would happen if, say, I was away, and an emergency, such as a fire, occured at my home. Presumably, police and firemen have the authority to enter in the interest of safety. But what if they see, or find evidence of, my gun collection? Or, as a journalist would say, "discover an arsenal"? Do they have the authority to "secure" it, if there was no evidence of a violent crime on my part?

 

[Tirod]

So, my takeaway is that the post is incorrectly titled, you are allowed to own black powder in NJ, and the owner was in violation of not only the statute's maximum allowable amount, but also in possession of an illegal firearm.

He's got a whole lot of stuff to disagree with the State on that, and his attorney has a full plate.

I see this as the typical report - "Onerous State Government Violates Upstanding Citizens 2A Rights and Invades Home to Confiscate Weapons for Political Gain." And, as usual, we later discover the first reports have factual errors and there are actual misdeeds involved to taint the propaganda value.

Another anti government blurb gone bad, which further reinforces their view that most of the complaints about actions like this are uninformed and misguided attempts to discredit law enforcement simply doing their job.

If we keep repeating distortions and not getting the facts first, we are just doing their job for them. If there is something to take away from this, it's that we can't accept media reports at face value. The writers will not get the facts straight in the first day and it takes more than a news cycle to get the truth.

Read 40 years of this stuff and it's no wonder that so many of us older guys have a wait and see view about it. After all, most news stories like this get it all wrong and two days later we discover the facts.

Train the masses to react to a "Breaking News!" item and you can control their attitude about it before they even have all the facts in hand. If there was an intent to create an overreaction, it certainly is playing out. We bit hook line and sinker once again.

Like the BATF sensationalizing the affadavit against Ares Armor to prejudice a judge into handing down a search warrant, we get news articles written by a known anti gun media which is also known to distort or report falsehoods to meet their slanted view.

There's always a new generation of "consumers" who have to learn better.

If you are sourcing news thru the mainstream media, the first question you should ask is "How much of the story is wrong?"

 

[CB900F]

Fella's;

Sleazy raises an interesting question: Would, could, responders use the presence of an RSC or safe as such evidence of a possible arsenal?

900F

 

[45_auto]

Would, could, responders use the presence of an RSC or safe as such evidence of a possible arsenal?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arsenal

ar·se·nal noun \ˈärs-nəl, ˈär-sə-\

: a collection of weapons

: a place where weapons are made or stored

Since an arsenal by definition is a collection of weapons, or a place where weapons are made or stored, then ANY safe, RSC, locked room, etc, could be taken as evidence of a possible arsenal.

Every house in the US is a possible arsenal.

 

[Willie Sutton]

In NJ, after any domesic violence no matter who is the aggressor or the victim, the house is searched completely (without any warrant needed) and ALL weapons are taken. Kitchen knives, scisssors, firearms, ammunition, bows, arrows, etc., etc, etc... ALL safes are opened, no matter what the size or shape. You WILL open them or they will call in a locksmith and open them without your consent. They will go into the attic, the garage, and back shed. If you have a NJ Firearms ID card, you will surrender it on the spot.

And if they find anything that's prima facia contraband, they WILL charge the offence, no matter if the offender is the aggressor or victim. "Assault Rifles", fire safety code violations, switchblade knifes, fireworks, your daughters stash-o-weed that you knew nothing about, your mother in laws prescription painkiller bottle for her backache medication that she gave to your wife for hers, etc, etc, etc... it's all bad. And you're gonna pay....


The odds of getting *any* of it back? 1000:1, and if anything *is* returned, it'll be so badly damaged that you won't want it back.

This is an unintended consequence of the laws regarding domestic violence. NOBODY wins when one party in a domestic situation goes wrong.


Willie

.

 

[CB900F]

45_Auto;

Thank you for the definition, it certainly helps make my point. That point being that if you do have an RSC/safe, will then your local emergency responders use that as an ipso-facto reason to request a search warrant to see if you are in violation of perhaps anything they can think of?

It would seem to me that things are tending to move in that direction in the more heavily populated states.

900F

 

[itsa pain]

Commenters on the original article indicate there was a misprint.

They also note that in their view, most of the powder in the photo is SMOKELESS powder.

His stash of black powder appears to have been slightly over the NJ limit, and over the Florida limit.

So you need to go to all this to-do over being a few pounds over a limit? Why not just discard those over the limit?

On the other hand, we could bring in the MRAPs, get some snipers, protect the perimter with some riot gear armored SWAT troops, and toss some tear gas for good measure......right?

Good post. We are lucky to have gun guys around that will call the cops if they think some one has to much powder even if it is not black powder. yeah right

 

[AlexanderA]

After the Lautenberg Amendment, gun owners are on notice to avoid domestic violence at all costs. Either mollify your spouse, or leave your spouse. Whatever you do, don't argue to the point where it might escalate. And if the unthinkable happens, and you're the victim of spousal violence, don't report it. Nurse your wounds in silence. That's better than the alternative.

That's the takeaway from all this "politically correct" stuff that's going on in New Jersey and other places. Really, it seems that a serious gun owner should never get married.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

We need to give NJ to Canada.

 

[rodregier]

Sounds like NJ regs are already *worse* than Canadian federal firearm laws and related stuff for domestic violence. Canadian criminal code is primarily federal.

In the Canadian context, I've heard of firearm owners who have rapidly (and lawfully) transferred all of their firearm holdings to a firearm dealer to take it out of play in an evolving domestic dispute.

 

[joe4702]

So what good are Heller & McDonald when this kind of crap still goes on?
5 years in jail for mere possession of an M1 carbine?

 

[Lost Sheep]

45_Auto;

Thank you for the definition, it certainly helps make my point. That point being that if you do have an RSC/safe, will then your local emergency responders use that as an ipso-facto reason to request a search warrant to see if you are in violation of perhaps anything they can think of?

It would seem to me that things are tending to move in that direction in the more heavily populated states.

900F

I hope you are being alarmist. Taken a minor step forward, the moldy old leather holster I never bothered to throw away or the rifle scope for my .22 I sold years ago might be probable cause for a search warrant?

PLEASE tell me it ain't so.

As far as the "black" powder in the newspapers, yep. Most of my smokeless propellant (a.k.a. gunpowder) is dark grey, nearly black. So, that is good enough for a N.J. judge and prosecutor, it must be criminal.

From the photograph, I could identify at least 200 lbs of capacity in those bottles and most of it looked like smokeless powder containers. So, if I had fuel cans with 50 gallons of diesel or kerosene (by my estimation more than the equivalent to about 300 lbs of smokeless powder in flammability) would I be guilty of criminal disregard of the safety of my neighbors?

As far as securing the firearms, the way N.J. law was quoted in another thread, all weapons that could present a danger to the victim are subject to confiscation. So, if there is a chance the wife could turn one of the guns or the powder on her husband, the police should take it/them. The alternative is to have taken the wife into custody. I wonder at that?

Lost Sheep Completely astounded at N.J. lack of compassion for the victim.

 

[Midwest]

The M1 Carbine one officer was photographed carting out of the house ain't gonna do him any favors, either... that's an illegal "assault firearm" here in NJ - and will land the guy 3-5 years in state prison, regardless of how the rest of the charges work out.

And for those who don't know about New Jersey's arcane, antiquated, backward and draconian gun laws. The Marlin 60, a simple .22Lr squirrel rifle is considered an assault rifle in New Jersey because it can hold 17 rounds. A .22 lr squirrel rifle.

http://njgunforums.com/forum/index.php/topic/32490-marlin-22-rifle-illegal/


This is an assault weapon in New Jersey


.

 

[itsa pain]

I hope you are being alarmist. Taken a minor step forward, the moldy old leather holster I never bothered to throw away or the rifle scope for my .22 I sold years ago might be probable cause for a search warrant?

PLEASE tell me it ain't so.

As far as the "black" powder in the newspapers, yep. Most of my smokeless propellant (a.k.a. gunpowder) is dark grey, nearly black. So, that is good enough for a N.J. judge and prosecutor, it must be criminal.

From the photograph, I could identify at least 200 lbs of capacity in those bottles and most of it looked like smokeless powder containers. So, if I had fuel cans with 50 gallons of diesel or kerosene (by my estimation more than the equivalent to about 300 lbs of smokeless powder in flammability) would I be guilty of criminal disregard of the safety of my neighbors?

As far as securing the firearms, the way N.J. law was quoted in another thread, all weapons that could present a danger to the victim are subject to confiscation. So, if there is a chance the wife could turn one of the guns or the powder on her husband, the police should take it/them. The alternative is to have taken the wife into custody. I wonder at that?

Lost Sheep Completely astounded at N.J. lack of compassion for the victim.

How about 1000 gallons of heating oil in your basement or buried in the yard. what about 1000 gallon propane tanks above ground? would some guy call the cops on 300 lbs of smokeless not black powder call them on the oil and propane tanks?