1. Dettlebach is a moron.
2. Liberty Doll's video is rehashing information that isn't new, isn't shocking, isn't news, isn't even controversial. But ya'll suck it up.
3. Ya'll embarrass yourselves by an utter fascination with YouTubers who misinform, sensationalize and misrepresent.
4. ATF has no means to use Adobe Acrobat with or without a "search feature" to search forms THEY DON'T HAVE!
5. Dettlebach will always be a moron.
6. Some of ya'll, Liberty Doll included, don't understand what Dettlebach thinks he's discussing.
What Dettlebach is trying to explain is how ATF conducts a firearm trace. Liberty Doll at 1:45 confuses "registry" with the process used by ATF to conduct a trace. It took the next ten seconds to realize she needs to shut up and do lipstick reviews.
1. ATF's only national firearms registry is for NFA Firearms. That registry has been in use since 1934, well before there ever was an ATF. Every transfer of possession requires ATF approval and most are taxed.
2. There is no national registry for Title I firearms. Period. Anyone who says otherwise is either ignorant at best, a complete idiot at worst. Don't be ignorant. Don't be a Dettlebach.
3. The Gun Control Act of 1968, a federal law passed by Congress, requires that manufacturers report the firearms they manufacture to ATF. That report includes model, serial#, caliber, etc.
4. The GCA also requires manufacturers to record the disposition of that firearm to the FFL they ship to. This isn't reported to ATF.
5. The GCA requires the receiving dealer or distributor to record the acquisition in their bound books and the subsequent disposition to another dealer or another distributor. Again, this isn't reported to ATF.
6. When a firearm is ultimately transferred to a nonlicensee, a Form 4473 Firearm Transaction Record is completed by the buyer, a NICS background check is run and the dealer notes the disposition to the buyer in his records. AGAIN, NOT REPORTED to the ATF.
7. When that buyer subsequently transfers/sells/gifts/trades/etc that firearm to another person...........AGAIN, not reported to ATF.
Some "registry" huh?
"Follow the gun" ?
What Dettlebach is explaining is how a firearm trace is conducted. Since he's an idiot and Liberty Doll is as well, here is the how its done. For like the millionth time on THR:
1. A police officer recovers a firearm at a crime scene, runs a serial# from a gun found at a traffic stop, basically any firearm that law enforcement has a need to verify.
2. For stolen firearms, the FBI maintains the NCIC database of stolen property. A police officer on "official business only" can query that database to see if a firearm was reported stolen. That will show who the victim was and allow for the return of the gun.
3. But for a firearm that WASN'T reported stolen, he contacts the ATF National Tracing Center. An LEO can contact the NTC, give them the manufacturer/model/serial#/caliber and the ATF NTC will
begin the trace. Here's the first clue that ATF doesn't have a database or registry......they can't go look it up because they don't have that information. You can't use Adobe Acrobat with or without a search feature of you don't have information to find.
ATF NTC will use the firearm information that the requesting agency submitted and then:
-NTC contacts the manufacturer: "Uh, we have a Glock 19, serial# AAA123, 9mm, can you tell me the disposition? Glock will tell them "we shipped that pistol to RSR Distributors in Grand Prairie, TX on 10/1/2023".
-NTC then contacts RSR Distributors and asks them the same question. RSR responds with "we shipped that gun to Hart Sports in Plano, TX on 10/15/2023"
-NTC then contacts Hart Sports and asks me the same question. If to another FFL, I give them his name and FFL#. If to a nonlicensee I fax or email a copy of that Form 4473. Why do I fax or email the Form 4473? BECAUSE ATF DOESN'T HAVE A REGISTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They don't know who the current possessor is! They make phone calls to the businesses that are required by law to keep records forever!
-NTC then forwards the buyers name and information to the LE agency that requested the firearm trace. That agency may or may not contact that buyer. If they do, it's "do you still have this gun?" or "do you know the name of the person you sold/traded/gifted/etc this gun to?" "Oh, you don't remember? Thanks BuhBye". That's it. Trace is over. Done. Each FFL contacted by ATF NTC has 24 hours to respond. So a trace to that first 4473 may take several days.
Now, where the confusion begins (other than the near total ignorance and plenty of stupidity by Dettlebach and Liberty Doll) is "Out of Business" records stored by ATF.
Again, the Gun Control Act of 1968, federal law, requires ATF to store the records from FFL's that have discontinued business. Up until last year, a dealer could destroy any of his 4473's that were older than age twenty. Any of his records that were not yet twenty years old he was required to keep at his business premises.
But last year, that changed. Rule 2021R-05 now requires all FFL's to store records permanently, until they discontinue business. At that point the FFL is required to send in his bound book, 4473's etc to ATF in Martinsburg, West Virginia. The building where ATF used to store them is caving in so they store those old 4473's in storage containers in the parking lot.
Remember I said this isn't new, isn't shocking, isn't news, isn't even controversial?
From NPR in 2013:
The Low-Tech Way Guns Get Traced
Here's a 2016 article from the rabidly anti gun "The Trace" :
The ATF’s Nonsensical Non-Searchable Gun Databases, Explained
Yet it's 2023 and Liberty Doll just now thinks OMG! OMG! Databases!
So, EVEN IF, ATF had a database of those millions of out of business records, what good does it do?
IMO....zero. Doesn't do a damned thing for the gun owner.
What IS THE PURPOSE of firearm traces? IMO, tracking guns to an FFL. Thats really all they care about. Being able to tie a gun recovered at a crime scene to a particular FFL. They want to be able to show that Dealer X has a lot of firearms being used in crimes or recovered at crime scenes. A dealer who has a lot of gun traces with a short "time to crime" faces extra scruitney and additional recordkeeping requirements. They also get compliance inspections more often.
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