Noise levels in real life situations

[skippy1729]

Does anyone know of a source for decibel levels cartridges from different length barrels?

I always wear ear protection when shooting but in a self defense situation I will not have this luxury. I won't get a suppressor because I don't want to be on an ATF list.

I own many firearms but which one should I use (or get) for concealed carry, open carry or home defense.

Please don't respond: "Is your hearing more important that your life". That's just plain stupid. I also know about auditory exclusion. You might not hear the shots but the damage will still be there.

I am leaning towards a Ruger LCR 327 magnum loaded with 32 magnum or 32 long for concealed carry and a 8-10 inch 10/22 or AR pistol for home defense. I currently carry a S&W 351PD, love the small size and weight but it is loud. Don't bother telling me 22 lr is no good for home defense, 25 well placed rounds will take care of any 2 legged critter.

Suggestions are welcome.

 

[shafter]

If you are concerned about noise then stay away from AR pistols. They are as loud as it gets. I would think 38 Special would be easier on the ears although I wouldn't want to shoot it indoors or outdoors without earpro.

22LR will certainly kill but will it stop someone soon enough? There is a good chance someone could soak up those tiny rounds be able to kill you before they succumbed. I wouldn't use it unless it was my only choice.

 

[Robert]

I'd make some suggestions but you said not to...

 

[General Geoff]

Does anyone know of a source for decibel levels cartridges from different length barrels?

Just about any centerfire cartridge out ANY barrel length will be over 150 dB.

IF you are super concerned about hearing loss AND do not under any circumstances want to buy a silencer, then a long barreled 10/22 wouldn't be a bad choice. Looking at about 125dB for that, unsuppressed. Still looking at hearing damage, but not nearly as much as with centerfire anything.

 

[230RN]

I always figured a 10-22 was a good choice for handicapped or elderly or female home defense with a 20 rd magazine... maybe with another 20 rounder ready to hand. Noise level low, but 10 rapid fire 40 grain bullets,, even if five missed, would take care of the majority of home defense situations. If not, then the rest of the 20 rounds would probably do the trick. And the indoor noise level would be tolerable.

Hey. I'm serious. Think about it. For outside carrying, the noise from a regular sidearm would not be so concentrated. But realistically, if you are that concerned about losing a few hair cells, then don't do a lot of things, including shooting and listening to loud music and driving highway speeds with your car window open.

Terry, 230RN

 

[hso]

Don't bother telling me

Even though it appears you've been here since '08 it looks like you aren't interested in sound advice from members. You've started by telling everyone you don't want their advice if they disagree with you. After all these years you haven't learned enough from reading forum postings to have already selected a carry gun or a home defense gun or know the difference between killing and stopping an attack. Why would anyone respond when you only want them to agree with you?

The answer to "Which Home Defense Gun", in the absence of any idea about the layout of your home, is ...any 5.56 carbine. The answer to "Which carry gun" is the largest highest energy hollow point caliber out of a handgun that points naturally for YOU. Not me, not him, not Aunt Sadie. YOU! There is no one specific make/model/caliber of handguns when death is on the line <Vizzin voice>. It has to fit you, you have to be able to make hits at defensive pistol ranges that will stop an attack. Only by trying different pistols and finding what points naturally for you can you pick a "ballistic life preserver".

If all of this is about hearing damage ... 900 fps .45 ACP out of whatever you can hit with it.

Oh, and you're already on an ATF list if you're posting here.

 

[Hartkopf]

I don’t worry about noise when considering a firearm for self defense. I worry about what will effectively stop the threat and how well I can perform with the tool in hand. 22LR is about 15th on my list but if it’s first on your list, then you be you.

 

[skippy1729]

If you are concerned about noise then stay away from AR pistols. They are as loud as it gets. I would think 38 Special would be easier on the ears although I wouldn't want to shoot it indoors or outdoors without earpro.

22LR will certainly kill but will it stop someone soon enough? There is a good chance someone could soak up those tiny rounds be able to kill you before they succumbed. I wouldn't use it unless it was my only choice.

I was thinking of a 22 lr AR style pistol not 5.56x45.

 

[JohnKSa]

Any unsuppressed pistol is not going to be ear safe, but that doesn't mean there aren't significant differences in your choices.

Remember that sound power level goes up 2x for every 3dB increase. That means a gun with a sound power level of 169dB (like a .357Mag revolver with hot loads) will put 12 TIMES more sound power into your ears (all else being equal) than a .45ACP pistol caliber carbine with a sound power level of 151dB. The difference is significant. Firearm owners get to decide for themselves if that significant difference justifies choosing a firearm based on sound level.

 

[skippy1729]

Even though it appears you've been here since '08 it looks like you aren't interested in sound advice from members. You've started by telling everyone you don't want their advice if they disagree with you. After all these years you haven't learned enough from reading forum postings to have already selected a carry gun or a home defense gun or know the difference between killing and stopping an attack. Why would anyone respond when you only want them to agree with you?

The answer to "Which Home Defense Gun", in the absence of any idea about the layout of your home, is ...any 5.56 carbine. The answer to "Which carry gun" is the largest highest energy hollow point caliber out of a handgun that points naturally for YOU. Not me, not him, not Aunt Sadie. YOU! There is no one specific make/model/caliber of handguns when death is on the line <Vizzin voice>. It has to fit you, you have to be able to make hits at defensive pistol ranges that will stop an attack. Only by trying different pistols and finding what points naturally for you can you pick a "ballistic life preserver".

If all of this is about hearing damage ... 900 fps .45 ACP out of whatever you can hit with it.

Oh, and you're already on an ATF list if you're posting here.

I am sincerely looking for sound advice I'm just not interested in 9mm or 5.56 and just wanted to avoid unnecessary posts. Shoot off a magazine of each at an outdoor range and post your report. Maybe you sleep with your hearing protection but what about your family?

To tell the truth, I carried a 3 inch1911 for years and used it very effectively. I'm 71 years old and can still rack the slide with it's 22 pound double wound recoil spring but in an emergency ... forget about it.

 

[bearcreek]

I always wear ear protection when shooting but in a self defense situation I will not have this luxury.

Probably true when you're out of the house, but there's no reason you can't keep a good set of electronic hearing protection next to your weapon when you're home.

 

[Mosin77]

Even though it appears you've been here since '08 it looks like you aren't interested in sound advice.

I see what you did there.

OP, it’s a good question. A suppressor is the only medically acceptable answer so far as I am aware.

However, there are “less bad” choices.

According to what I’ve read, a .22lr fired from a 28” barrel bolt action (just about the quietest unsuppressed firearm you will find) is about 128 decibels. A “normal” 22 (like a 10/22) is about 140db. 140db is considered the “threshold of pain.” Any handgun, even a 22 handgun, or rifle is going to be in the 152-165db range normally. Some with short barrels, muzzle devices, or magnum chamberings are even louder. I’m not sure where the unequivocal “one shot at this decibel does permanent damage” level is, but most agree that it’s right in that 150-160db area. The thing is, a gunshot’s sound only lasts a few milliseconds, and it’s typically continuous duration that does damage, at lower decibels. So, you’ll damage your hearing if you’re exposed to 8 hours of continuous 95db sound (like machinery in a plant.) On the other hand a Daisy red Ryder BB gun is 97db. Which is pretty quiet in the grand scheme of things. A bolt action .22 dry firing is 115db. Most of us would agree it’s silly to be concerned about hearing damage from dry firing or shooting a child’s spring powered BB gun.

But sound is also going to be worse inside a house. I assume this is because the sound pressure echoes off surrounding walls almost instantaneously, giving one a much longer (in terms of milliseconds) dose of that high decibel sound. So really, even a 128db 22 bolt gun (which, when you shoot it outside, sounds so quiet you would never think you should be using earplugs) is probably going to sound a lot louder when shot indoors.

A suppressor takes that 165-155db handgun or rifle shot, and brings it down to 125-135db. Still loud, but probably not loud enough to permanently damage your hearing when fired indoors one or two occasions, at least not too much.

 

[rust collector]

11" AR pistol in 300 Blk with subsonic loads. Shake awake red dot, mounted weapon light, sound forwarder on muzzle.

 

[mmb617]

If I am in a actual self defense situation then by definition that means I fully believe my life is in danger. In that scenario concerns about hearing loss will be secondary to preservation of life. So I carry what I shoot the best and in my case that's an M&P Compact 9mm. If I ever had to fire that weapon indoors without ear pro it would undoubtedly be very loud, but I think it could get the job done, and that's priority one.

A lot of people think a 12 gauge shotgun is the perfect home defense weapon. Those aren't exactly quiet and if fired in home defense the defender would most likely not be wearing hearing protection. I don't see anyone saying that makes the weapon unsuitable for the job.

 

[Space Ghost]

I'm gonna be the devils advocate here, and say please don't overthink it, and worry about it.
Not one bit.
Here's why...

I'm a 28 year veteran of the U.S. Army. Over the years (OK, decades) I've been around a lot of loud noises. I started off driving tanks. Yes, the pieces, and parts of an M60A3 rattle, and bang like crazy when those things are rumbling down the road. That's not even counting firing the weapons. Deuce-and-a-halfs are loud as hell (the old ones), as are helicopters. Gunfire (what we're talking about here) is loud, and by the time I got to the end of my career, (in fact the CAUSE of the end of my career) I was sent on multiple post 9/11 deployments to combat where I not only fired my M4 inside a structure, but from a vehicle. Oh yeah, then there's the explosive munitions... bla bla. So yeah, I have hearing loss. I'm NOT deaf mind you... I just have some hearing loss... and sometimes my right ear will turn on and ring for a while. Annoying as hell.

First off... Yes, the old question you didn't want to hear... "Is your hearing more important that your life". More importantly, what about the lives of your family? Yeah, I know, sounds just plain stupid, but most of us would give our very lives, to defend those we love, so risking a bit of hearing damage should be no big thing to fret about.

Secondly... I also know first hand about auditory exclusion, and it is true to some extent. Mostly I think because you're so scared, (and mad) and focused in the moment. But your ears will be ringing after.

Third, and this is the biggie... hearing damage, unless it's something truly catastrophic, is accumulative.

The hearing loss I (and others like me) have, is from noise exposure over time.

If you're wearing hearing protection when you train, and the only time you don't, is that one time (that may never happen) when some ******* makes you defend yourself... the extent of your hearing loss is more than likely going to be limited to ringing ears... that will start after its over... and last for maybe a day or two at the most.

You will NOT have any measurable loss of hearing from only one, or two instances of shooting a firearm a few rounds (of any kind) to defend yourself.

Hearing protection is important. I'm not saying it isn't.
I'm just saying that if you use it most of the time, and you don't have time to when the bad guys surprise you... it's nothing to lose sleep over... and it's certainly nothing to limit your choices over.
I do have a can in ATF jail... (for my SBR) but I figure I'm on enough watch lists anyhow. If I had to tonight, I'd shoot my SBR without it... inside my home... because I know it will stop the threat, and it's the weapon I'm best with.
Choose a weapon that will effectively stop the threat, and one you're good with, be it pistol, rifle, or shotgun.

The chance of you ever having to need to shoot it without hearing protection is very small. Maybe once, or twice... if ever.

 

[uuolf]

I'm watching the thread for useful info... My son was in South Korea for a couple of years recently... Some specop guys trained them on noise when firing in tunnels... Like under cities... I immediately went out and purchased active, quad mic sound supresion hearing protection... I leave them hanging from my bedside... He reminded me that the bad guys probably won't have a silencer so a silencer on yours is mute... Excuse the pun...lol... And flash bangs are used for a reason... To disorient those on the receiving side I presume... Keep in mind I'm living live vicariously through my son... And thanks to my son, dad, grandad, sister, friends and others over the years who have made that possible for me!

 

[jmr40]

Does anyone know of a source for decibel levels cartridges from different length barrels?

Even if there were such a list it would vary by the individual load which is hard to account for.

Any cartridge fired without hearing protection can damage hearing. I'd avoid the obvious choices like 223 from a pistol or short barreled magnum revolvers. Beyond that most any common loading in 9mm, 40, or 45 will be about equally loud compared to the 32's you're thinking about.

25 well placed rounds will take care of any 2 legged critter.

A 22 fired from a carbine would probably be the quietest. And under ideal conditions SHOULD work. But you don't always have ideal conditions. Heavy winter clothing might be about the same as body armor when using a 22. Or even a 32.

 

[Walkalong]

Low pressure large caliber for the case length, as in .45 ACP, will be easier on the ears than .32 Mag, 9MM, .357 Mag, .40 etc. All the old guys who grew up shooting without ear protection can tell you that.

That said, I don't choose a defensive firearm on that basis, a shot or two is nothing in the big scheme of things over your lifetime.

 

[hso]

what about your family?

Sound pressure levels fall off as an inverse square of distance. When spls fall below 140dB, whether by distance, barrier, or hearing pro you're below the instantaneous damage level. If you're worried about hearing damage to family members...don't. Unless they're in the same room they won't suffer permanent hearing damage.

Oh, and I do keep electronic muffs with the HD gun because they enhance hearing while protecting it. But I don't depend on a gun. My home has stout doors, with strong locks, and properly installed to resist all but the most determined break in attempts. No one without a rescue saw is getting into my house without an invitation. A much better investment than Sorden muffs and an AR.

 

[WrongHanded]

Don't bother telling me 22 lr is no good for home defense, 25 well placed rounds will take care of any 2 legged critter.

Suggestions are welcome.

My "welcome" suggestion is that if you want to use a small diameter, lightweight, weak, and thoroughly inadequate cartridge for home defense and self defense, you just go ahead and do it.

But don't bother trying to work up some mental gymnastics routine to try and change the laws of physics, or try to create a significant problem that such a cartridge would avoid where none actually exists to begin with.

 

[Telekinesis]

Short answer is that any reasonable defensive round is going to give you hearing damage.

“Hearing safe” for impulse sounds is considered to be 140dB, but in my opinion it isn’t comfortable until you get into the high 120dB range. A 9mm pistol will be around 158dB, a 16” AR will be in the low 160dB range, and an AR SBR (or effectively an AR pistol) will be around 165dB. Remember that the dB scale is logarithmic, so an increase of 5dB is a significant increase.

In general, increasing the pressure of a cartridge (for example, using a magnum cartridge) for a given barrel length will increase the sound level. Additionally, keeping the same cartridge but reducing the barrel length will also increase the sound level.

I’d say that a magnum revolver and an AR pistol are about the worst choices you could make if your primary concern is hearing damage.

Don't bother telling me 22 lr is no good for home defense, 25 well placed rounds will take care of any 2 legged critter.

A .22 LR isn’t going to do much unless it hits the heart or CNS, which means you’re looking for a fist sized target at whatever distance your attacker is. Assuming 0.20 second splits, it’s going to take you about 5 seconds to put 25 rounds into an attacker. Think you can convince him to stand still for 5 seconds? Or can you make a fist sized group on a randomly moving target while shooting as fast as you can?

And second, the idea that you are posting on a well known gun forum but don’t think you’re already on a list is laughable. You might as well get the cool toys, because we’re already on the list.

 

[jar]

If noise levels really are your major concern you might consider something like a 410 shotgun. IIRC they are slightly quieter than almost all rifles and pistols, quieter even than the small 22lr - 32acp. But even there the noise level is going to be will beyond any comfort level. Some spring activated air guns might be really quiet but how effective they might be is questionable.

But a hunting sling shot may be the ticket, certainly quiet and probably a higher shot rate than the quiet air guns and something that you could practice with even indoors in an urban environment.

 

[KY DAN]

Does anyone know of a source for decibel levels cartridges from different length barrels?

I always wear ear protection when shooting but in a self defense situation I will not have this luxury. I won't get a suppressor because I don't want to be on an ATF list.

I own many firearms but which one should I use (or get) for concealed carry, open carry or home defense.

Please don't respond: "Is your hearing more important that your life". That's just plain stupid. I also know about auditory exclusion. You might not hear the shots but the damage will still be there.

I am leaning towards a Ruger LCR 327 magnum loaded with 32 magnum or 32 long for concealed carry and a 8-10 inch 10/22 or AR pistol for home defense. I currently carry a S&W 351PD, love the small size and weight but it is loud. Don't bother telling me 22 lr is no good for home defense, 25 well placed rounds will take care of any 2 legged critter.

Suggestions are welcome.

You know I see guys like this in gun stores telling how big and bad they will be when faced with danger.... I don't really believe they have ever 1 been shot or stabbed or 2 actually had to use violence. Drunken fist fights over Debbie don't count .

Your not open to anything we got to say, Oh by the way the ATF list is a stupid excuse for not wanting to own a superuser/silencer. Not like those hunting and fishing permits, NRA/GOA memberships, 4473 forms to buy a gun aren't monitored and actively searched by the government and its affiliates.....

I guess get you a set of electronic ear plugs and wear them 24/7 and you will be prepared.

So thanks for giving us this opportunity to talk with you about things that will never happen.

Just have a welding company make you grates that are able to open from the inside and install them over every window.

Use solid core doors, and install solid proof doors in sleeping quarters.

If you're a sleep your done for, awake you have a chance.

Guns are not the answer, preparedness is

 

[hso]

A bit of reading from the professionals.

https://earinc.com/gunfire-noise-level-reference-chart/

 

[Ohen Cepel]

HSO, great info! Nice to have real #'s put to it.

Bottom line, they are all LOUD.

I know the OP doesn't want to "be on another list" but a suppressor addresses this well.

I did see a shotgun which had something like a 50in barrel on it, that was rather quiet but not practical for much.

CCI Quiets out of a .22? Not ideal and they may not run well in your selected firearm.