Non-Fluted Cylinders...

[charliemopic]

I sure like the way the S&W model 657 .41 magnum looks with the 7.5" barrel and non-fluted cylinder.
The non-fluted cylinder is very attractive to me and I want one but not in .41. Don't get me wrong, the .41 mag. is a fine cartridge I just don't want to have to start accumulating another cartridge.
Aside from how it looks and added weight is there a reason for non-fluted cylinders?
Three months ago at a local gun shop I seen a used S&W .357 with 4" full lug barrel with a non-fluted cyl. I don't remember the model # but I liked it alot and should have bought it but the price was too high.
The only new or recent production revolvers that I have seen with non-fluted cylinders are the model 657 Smiths.
I keep an eye out for them on GB but again I see only the 657.
Does anyone know of other make/models that have non-fluted cylinders...chambered in .38Spl/.357 mag?
Any input on the non fluted cyliders wiuld be appreciated.

Thanks
charliemopic

 

[Old Fuff]

Other then reducing weight, the flutes are cosmetic. Some like them, some don't. The manufacturers love people like you because they can eliminate some machining operations.

Various manufacturers (Smith & Wesson, Ruger and Colt among them) have put out special small runs of revolvers without flutes, but the only regular production models I can think of offhand are Ruger's Super Blackhawk and Bisley Blackhawk lines of single action revolvers.

 

[ATW525]

There's a Talo exclusive S&W Model 60 (J frame, .357 Magnum, 2 1/8" tube) with an unfluted cylinder.

 

[Fumbler]

Aside from how it looks and added weight is there a reason for non-fluted cylinders?

Yes...When you stuff 6 rounds of 480Ruger or 454 Casull into a cylinder then you need all the extra steel you can get to keep the strength up
Ruger Super Redhawks in 44mag are fluted, the 454 and 480 are not.

As far as 357mag...doesn't S&W have some custom shop models without flutes?

 

[Old Fuff]

I tend to disagree. The thin part of the chamber wall is where the circumference of the chamber comes closest to the circumference of the cylinder, or where the circumference of two chambers come closest together. In all revolvers those are the weakest place, but never the less they are strong enough in modern revolvers for whatever cartridge the revolver is chambered for.

A non-fluted chamber will have more metal in the web between the chambers, but that isn't an area where strength is an issue.

 

[SGW42]

The Ruger Bearcat is unfluted. And I think a model of the Ruger Alaskan is unfluted as well.

 

[rcmodel]

Old Fuff said:

A non-fluted chamber will have more metal in the web between the chambers, but that isn't an area where strength is an issue.

I agree completely.
Lack of fluting does not make the cylinder any stronger at all. It just makes it heavier.
This is good for recoil control, but not good for DA shooting and gun wear.

As noted, the weak link in the chain is the thin webs between the chambers and the outside of the cylinder.

But in addition, the bolt stop cuts on a six shot cylinder come within a very few thousands of the chamber walls on most revolvers.
That right there is the weakest link.

And the reason five shot revolvers can handle pressure all out of proportion to the cylinders size compared to a six shot one of equal size.

The bolt stop cuts are between the chambers, not directly over them.


rcmodel

 

[Old Fuff]

And the reason five shot revolvers can handle pressure all out of proportion to the cylinders size compared to a six shot one of equal size. The bolt stop cuts are between the chambers, not directly over them.

Usually true, but earlier editions of Colt revolvers had the cylinder notches in the web of 6-shot cylinders and the cylinder bolt off-center in the frame. Thus, for example Colt was able to make a 6-shot/.38 Special cylinder for their D-frame line which was only about .010" larger the a S&W J-frame.

 

[rcmodel]

This is true.

I was thinking more of Freedom Arms revolvers, and 5-shot Ruger Blackhawk conversions.


rcmodel

 

[20nickels]

I'm typically function before form, but the flutes are ugly and more difficult to clean.

 

[winchester62]

Here's one in 44 mag with a 7.5 inch barrel. And a 50 yard group. It's my bambi gun!

 

[MCgunner]

My Rossi M971 was fluteless. I sort of liked the look.

Oh, yeah, the NAA minis are fluteless. Ain't a lot metal to flute on the things, LOL. Lots of cap and ball came fluteless. I have a Ruger Old Army.

 

[researchdoc]

Non-fluted, or Bull Cylinders as they are called, are very attractive and strong. If you have engraving on them, it is even more beautiful than a fluted one. The flutes are meant to reduce weight (albeit, very little) and to increase surface area of the cylinder so that it can cool faster, just like a fluted barrel. I don't know how much faster the cooling is, probably not much. I love the Bull Cylinder, it looks great!!

 

[Virginian]

Man if you guys get the manufacturers to go fluteless I am going to be darned upset ! I like flutes.

 

[ChefJeff1]

unfluted 44 mag

Check out redstradingpost.com on gunbrker they have an unfluted 44 mag trail boss

 

[boots]

nice...except for the lock of course...

 

[Jim K]

One disadvantage to non-fluted cylinders is weight. Not the overall weight of the gun, which is minor, but the weight of the cylinder itself. In fast firing, every fraction of an ounce added to the rotational mass of the cylinder causes greater strain and wear on the hand and ratchet, as well as greater impact on the cylinder stop.

FWIW, I see NO advantage to a non-fluted cylinder, aside from what some folks think is a "cool" look.

Jim

 

[Moser]

686-3 Classic Hunter, its still unfired, and I can't bring myself to do it

 

[20nickels]

I'll shoot it!^^

 

[Slamfire]

That little bit of extra added weight from not fluting the cylinder and having a non tapered barrel make the 45LC M25-7 much more pleasant to shoot than the 45LC M625-9.

In fact I had to remove the open backstrap hogues on the Mountain Gun. Too much recoil on the web of my hand.

 

[Freightman]

I have a super Blackhawk no flutes and though I agree that each bit of weight is a strain on the hand and ratchet but have you looked at the thickness of the one on the Ruger? it is massive when compared to other revolvers. The recent BH may not be that thick but my '78 is.

 

[S&Wfan]

I like the look . . . but maybe only because they are different (and thus distinctive).

Additionally, as mentioned, it makes the wheelgun a little heavier and this helps curb the recoil of a super-stout load in a .44 Magnum shooting 300 grain, hot hunting loads.

Here's my late 1989 Model 29-5 .44mag that came with both the unfluted cylinder AND the full underlug barrel. The combination really serves to tame the recoil a little! The trade off with the extra weight is that the firearm is heavier than normal, and that really interferes with the comfort + concealability factor of self-defense handguns.

AT THE OTHER END OF THE USAGE SPECTRUM . . .

Here's a S&W wheelgun made specifically for "gun game" use (fast-action shooting competitions). It has a 4" barrel but the barrel has been lightened by "skeletonizing" it . . . and the cylinder is made of Titanium to lessen the weight (and also fluted for weight-reduction. These two factors contribute also to a faster from the holster speed with a faster swing between targets when shooting in a fast, double-action mode!

Different tools . . . for different uses . . .

T.

 

[JamesKelly]

Ah, Gentlemen, removing metal to flute the cylinder actually makes it stronger.

Yes, having less metal here makes the cylinder stronger.

It does so because it permits the chamber to expand more uniformly. The metal where the flutes were serves only to increase the stresses at that thin spot between cylinder outside diameter and chamber.

A more detailed technical description might be had from some of the experienced mechanical engineers who might chance to see this thread.

 

[unspellable]

There's another current thread on this that goes into more detail.

 

[Backpacker33]

According to an article I recently read in a gunzine, the origins of fluting are unclear. One generally accepted theory, according to the story, was that fluting made it easier for the shooter of the black powder cap and ball guns to turn the cylinder when the gun was fouled by powder residue. Thereafter, it became a "standard." I do thinkk they look nicer, though unfluted ones give more "canvas" to engraving, and give a business-like look to a hunting gun.
-Backpacker