Non hollow point self defense ammo.......

Ks5shooter

Ks5shooter

Contributing Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2013
Messages
3,538
Location
Communist state of nj
So the great state of nj will not allow hollow points for self defense.Only target practice at range farm etc .What is the best EDC ammo that will do the job non hollow point.. thanks Don
 
There is also PowR ball, I remember hearing good things when they came out but that’s a long time ago. I don’t know much about them, but it’s an option I’d look into if I was in NJ.
 
For what it’s worth, this from the NJ.gov website
(Para 13 changed to 1 when pasting)

I’m not a police officer, are hollow points legal for me to possess?
  1. Yes. They are legal for purchase and possess in your home or on land owned by you. They are legal to possess and use at a gun range. They are also legal to possess while traveling to and from such places. Ammunition lacking a hollow cavity at the tip, such as those with a polymer filling, are not considered to be hollow point ammunition. An example of this can be seen with the Hornady Critical Defense / Critical Duty, Cor-Bon PowRball / Glaser Safety Slug and Nosler Inc. Defense ammunition.

    https://nj.gov/njsp/firearms/firearms-faqs.shtml
 
Even with legal hollowpoints, I'm switching to the Underwood Extreme Defense rounds (using Lehigh bullets).

There's also a case to be made for just loading range ammo.
 
Not much help, but as a NJ permit holder here, my concern with fmj is over penetration. I am using Critical Defense in my short barrels, and Critical Duty in my full size. At this point I have tried a magazine of each through each handgun and all fed reliably. Only talking 10 rounds each so far, but at $1+ a round I'll test some more when I hit the lottery. The Cor Bon and Nosler ammo seems to be rarer than hen's teeth. I am looking into the Lehigh extreme defense and similar bullet designs, but haven't tried them.
 
Atavar said:
I am loading Lehigh Defense Extreme Defense bullets. Solid copper non expanding not HP.
Check your state rules carefully though.
Click to expand...

I load Underwood Extreme Defender, which uses the Lehigh extreme defense bullet with a slightly hotter load and nickel plated casing. Both bullets rely on fluid transfer to crush tissue without any expansion creating a wound channel similar to or greater than JHP.
 
dweis said:
I load Underwood Extreme Defender, which uses the Lehigh extreme defense bullet with a slightly hotter load and nickel plated casing. Both bullets rely on fluid transfer to crush tissue without any expansion creating a wound channel similar to or greater than JHP.
Click to expand...

I noticed Wilson Combat is big into showing the stop-motion of the temporary stretch cavity in its videos on the round. I don't see much in the way of independent testing showing it is comparable.
 
If I was in NJ (or forbidden HP / 10 round limit) a Glock 30 AIWB would be hard to beat.
Critical Defense or Critical Duty and if it doesn't expand it still is 45.
I'd also think a Kahr PM40 in pocket handy (along with the Glock on belt) to offer the option of putting hand on it without revealing I'm carrying.
As with the Glock 30, the PM40 is maximizing bullet diameter in case the bullet doesn't expand.


In before anyone condoned using 45 FMJ or posted the cliché "they all fall to hardball" :barf: in reference to 45 FMJ.
Note. The 2nd gun in pocket had nothing to do with anticipated threat, area, or "war zone" :barf: it was a option which is valid wherever.
dancing-banana-banana.gif
 
N J Law is surprisingly sparing in definitions under
New Jersey Statutes 2C:39-3. Prohibited weapons and devices.
https://www.lawserver.com/law/state/new-jersey/nj-laws/new_jersey_laws_2c_39-3

f. Dum-dum or armor piercing ammunition.
(1) Any person, other than a law enforcement officer or persons engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f. of N.J.S.2C:39-6, who knowingly has
in his possession any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet, or (2) any person, other than a collector of firearms or ammunition as curios or relics as
defined in Title 18, United States Code, section 921 (a) (13) and has in his possession a valid Collector of Curios and Relics License issued by
the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives, who knowingly has in his possession any armor piercing ammunition, as defined in
subsection gg. of N.J.S.2C:39-1, is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. For purposes of this section, a collector may possess not more than
three examples of each distinctive variation of the ammunition described above. A distinctive variation includes a different head stamp,
composition, design, or color.
Click to expand...

"Armor-Piercing Ammunition" gets copious definition:
New Jersey Statutes 2C:39-1. Definitions.
gg. “Armor piercing ammunition” means:
(1) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and is constructed entirely,
excluding the presence of traces of other substances, from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze,
beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or (2) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a
handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile. “Armor piercing ammunition”
shall not include shotgun shot required by federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible
projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the United States Attorney General finds is primarily intended to be used
for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the United States Attorney General finds is intended to be used
for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil gas well perforating device.
Click to expand...

Now, that "projectile...which may be used in a handgun and is constructed entirely...from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper" may get very close to the construction of the "screw-tip" solids. Maybe. Perhaps.

And, there are clearly one too many FAQ out there without substantive attribution, too. Especially given that the New Jersey State Police unequivocally state: "The New Jersey State Police is not authorized to provide legal advice to private parties."

I'm not entirely sure where that leaves a responsible firearms owner in NJ. A person will want to suppose that "soft point" ammo would be compliant, but the use of the undefined terms "dum dum" is more than passing irresponsible, legislatively.

Particularly, as the Dum Dum Arsenal in Bengal, India produced soft-point ammo rather specifically in its history.
 
WheelGunMan said:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monolithic_bullet
Click to expand...
It' bull. This has been discussed here at some length.

Body tissue is not a fluid, and it does not behave like one.

The bullet will rotate less than one revolution while it is in the body.

It is an obvious gimmick.

I do not buy the claims, not even a little. But the main reason I would not use them is their appearance. A prosecutor could get a lot of milage from passing those things around to the jurors, even without mentioning the ads.

"Fluid transfer" is a term used to describe the movement of a fluid from one vessel to another.
 
Atavar said:
For what it’s worth, this from the NJ.gov website
(Para 13 changed to 1 when pasting)

I’m not a police officer, are hollow points legal for me to possess?
  1. Yes. They are legal for purchase and possess in your home or on land owned by you. They are legal to possess and use at a gun range. They are also legal to possess while traveling to and from such places. Ammunition lacking a hollow cavity at the tip, such as those with a polymer filling, are not considered to be hollow point ammunition. An example of this can be seen with the Hornady Critical Defense / Critical Duty, Cor-Bon PowRball / Glaser Safety Slug and Nosler Inc. Defense ammunition.

    https://nj.gov/njsp/firearms/firearms-faqs.shtml
Click to expand...

I want to make sure I understand this; so you can own JHP's, take them to a gun range and fire them at a target in NJ, but you can't carry them for self defense purposes in NJ. Is that correct?
 
Outlaw75 said:
I want to make sure I understand this; so you can own JHP's, take them to a gun range and fire them at a target in NJ, but you can't carry them for self defense purposes in NJ. Is that correct?
Click to expand...
That is my understanding, but as I don’t live in NJ it doesn’t really affect me. I would like to hear from people that live and shoot there.
 
Kleanbore said:
It' bull. This has been discussed here at some length.

Body tissue is not a fluid, and it does not behave like one.

The bullet will rotate less than one revolution while it is in the body.

It is an obvious gimmick.

I do not buy the claims, not even a little. But the main reason I would not use them is their appearance. A prosecutor could get a lot of milage from passing those things around to the jurors, even without mentioning the ads.

"Fluid transfer" is a term used to describe the movement of a fluid from one vessel to another.
Click to expand...
Believe what you will.
 
Kleanbore said:
It' bull. This has been discussed here at some length.

Body tissue is not a fluid, and it does not behave like one.

The bullet will rotate less than one revolution while it is in the body.

It is an obvious gimmick.

I do not buy the claims, not even a little. But the main reason I would not use them is their appearance. A prosecutor could get a lot of milage from passing those things around to the jurors, even without mentioning the ads.

"Fluid transfer" is a term used to describe the movement of a fluid from one vessel to another.
Click to expand...
"a wider wound channel and maximum transfer of kinetic energy into a soft target."
 
WheelGunMan said:
Believe what you will.
Click to expand...
An infomed judgmet can be based on facts, icluding
  • The principles and properties of materials
  • Velocity and twist rate
  • Test results
  • That the round has not been adopted for law enforcement use
WheelGunMan said:
"...maximum transfer of kinetic energy into a soft target."
Click to expand...
Unless the bullet passes through, all of the energy of any round is "transferred" to the target.

I am reminded of another gimmick from years ago. It had been discovered that aircraft could be made to exceed Mach 1 with less thrust if the airframe geometry followed the "area rule". This meant that the diameter of the fuselage was reduced where the wings attached, to reduce the total cross sectional area.

Reloaders of rifle ammunition who are old enough may recall when some outfit came out with jacketed bullets with a shaped something like that of a Coke bottle--like the fuselages of supersonic fighters.

But the bullets did not have wings for which the cross-sectional area had to be taken into account. The idea was meaningless.

dweis said:
https://lehighdefense.com/our-technologies/xtreme-defense.html
Click to expand...
Advertising.
 
Kleanbore said:
It' bull. This has been discussed here at some length.

Body tissue is not a fluid, and it does not behave like one.

The bullet will rotate less than one revolution while it is in the body.

It is an obvious gimmick.

I do not buy the claims, not even a little. But the main reason I would not use them is their appearance. A prosecutor could get a lot of milage from passing those things around to the jurors, even without mentioning the ads.

"Fluid transfer" is a term used to describe the movement of a fluid from one vessel to another.
Click to expand...

Actually body tissue, organs, muscle are full of water. Even bones have some water content. The average human body is about 70mpercent water. You can see the scientific data here:
https://www.healthline.com/health/body-water-percentage. See link in post 23 to read how floured bullets work.

 
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