Noobie .38 & .357 Cast ???s

[Quoheleth]

It'll be at least a week before I get to the range [bummer] but I finally got almost all of my stuff together and am almost ready to start my first reload batch.

I'm using a Lee hand press, have a slough of .38 brass (thanks in no small part to some very generous THR members!!!) and a good selection of 158 gr cast WCs and SWCs. Gotta get my powder now and I'll be ready to rock.

Have a couple of quick questions:

1. Powder choice: I'm using the Lee dippers. I want as much variety as possible, able to shoot .38 Special, +P, and .357 Mag loads in my 158 grain lead bullets. Using my Lee manual (2nd Ed), there are only a few powders that match up to the dippers in all three loads. Two are Blue Dot and Accur #2. There are trade-offs with both: Blue Dot is a bit warmer, but uses about 2x the powder per round, so a pound doesn't go as far. ANyone have experience with either or both powder? I know there will be clean-up after either, but is one better than the other?

2. I ordered 2 boxes of Remington 158 lead HBWCs. Can I use loads printed for WCs in my HBWC's, or is there a difference because of the extra space in the hollow base? (Did that make sense???)

3. I know .38 Sp uses small, regular pistol primers and most .357 uses small magnum. What about +P loads?

4. I also ordered some Winchester 125 gr JSP. Lee doesn't show Winchester bullets as a choice, and neither do some websites. Can I sub any 125 gr JSP to get load information? (i.e. Hornady XTP) and still be safe?

I'm excited about getting started in this hobby & looking forward to the results. What would you recommend for a first batch - a couple dozen rounds to make sure I'm doing it right? Or go ahead and run a full box?

 

[Steve C]

1.

.....there are only a few powders that match up to the dippers in all three loads.

I'm not sure what you mean exactly about the powders and dippers matching up to the loads. Loads in the manuals are listed as maximum and some have start loads. You need to use a load that's either a listed START LOAD or reduce the MAXIMUM LOAD BY 10% for a start load. The Lee dippers are too inaccurate to use maximum load data. You need to make sure your selected dipper is going to throw a start load. The chart gives you an approximate throw for each dipper but you need a scale if you want to work up a load to higher velocity than start level.
AA#2 is a fast powder on the same level as W231, HP38, and Bullseye suitable for target and modest velocity loads. Blue Dot is a relatively slow powder that requires magnum pressures to burn well and as noted you use more of it. AA#2 would work well with your Wad Cutters and .38 spl loads while Blue Dot would be more appropriate for full power magnums.

2. HBWC's should be used with light target loads producing velocities of 700 to 800 fps. If using AA#2 a load of 3.0 to 3.5 grs would be proper. Too high a pressure and you can pull the skirt off the bullet or seal it tightly in the cylinder and blow out the middle creating a bore obstruction for the next round. Solid base wad cutters can be loaded to velocities of a normal solid base bullet. Blue Dot would not be appropriate to use with HBWC's.

3. Use regular primers unless the load data specifies magnums. Normally magnums are used for hard to ignite ball powders like H110 or W296.

4. You can use data for other jacketed bullets of the same weight but start at a 10% less the maximum start load at least.

 

[Lovesbeer99]

Get a scale, please.

I use Unique powder, but I'll be switching to W231 soon as it meters better. If you are not in a rush, Unique is a good powder for low pressure WC all the way up to .357 hot rounds.

Shoot safe (I do)
Lovesbeer99

 

[Quoheleth]

Clarify...

Steve:

Sorry - my introduction was a bit unclear. I know to use the starting loads first, and that's what I was referencing. For example (and these are all from MODERN RELOADING, as starting loads; I'm not going to list the cc volume, auto disk setting, etc.)

p. 557. .357 Mag 158 grain lead:
*Blue Dot uses 9.4 grains (dipper .7) for 1381 fps
*Accurate #5 uses 8.1 grains (dipper .5) for 1192 fps

p. 566, .38 Special, 158 gr lead:
*Blue Dot = 5.8 gr (dip .5) 919 fps
*Acc #5 = 5.3 gr (dip .3) 827 fps

p. 572 .38 +p, 158 gr lead:
* Blue Dot = 6.0 gr (dip .5) 959 fps
*Acc #5 = 5.6 gr (dip .3) 880 fps.

This is what I meant by providing data for all three cartridges (.38, .38+P, 357) that uses the same powder in all three and can be measured by a dipper. If I had a scale I could use Win 231 or Titegroup (or whatever else) but for now, I'm limited by my dippers. (I got into this on a shoestring budget in an agreement with my wife...yes, I want a scale down the road, but I gotta work with what I have right know...ya know???)

I'm mostly wanting to work up range loads, so that's why I bought the WCs. (That and the REmingtons were going for <$5/box).

I guess what I wanted to know is if both/either of these powders are better than the other for just range stuff, and if they're good for noobies to start with (I read on another thread someone recommends NOT to use titegroup, for example, because of its small load volume; it's VERY easy to accidentally double-charge a cartridge).

I saw the warning about Blue Dot with the HBWCs - that's the kind of thing I was looking for. Bingo!!!

Thanks,
Q

 

[tube_ee]

I don't use Blue Dot in .38s

It doesn't burn worth a tinker's darn. I'm talking perfectly intact blue dots all over the gun. Load it up to 10.3-10.6 grains, depending on what it weighs that day, in .357 Magnum brass, with a 158 grain Bear Creek LRN, and it burns and shoots great. Accurate, clean, no leading (in my guns). Blue Dot has been a great mid-range .357 Magnum powder for me, but it thoroughly sucked as a .38 Special powder.

To bad, because it metered beautifully (more consistent than my Hornady scale could determine) in my Lee Auto-Disk, and filled cases up quite well. I may try some intermediate loads in the 7.5-9 grain range and see how that goes. I'm betting that there's something less than a Magnum but more than a Special that will burn and shoot well. For now, I'm still most comfortable sticking to the books, where there isn't anything between .38+P and low-end .357. All my guns in this caliber are Magnums, BTW.

I tried Green Dot for .38s, and got the same consistency and a much better burn. IIRC, 3.3 grains makes a nice, accurate, soft-shooting .38 with a 158 lead boolit. Check Alliant's online guide to be sure. Makes a nice 1 1/8 oz 12 gauge powder too, and has plenty of loads for 1 oz 16s as well. Me likey Green Dot.

Also, bear in mind that my Lee dippers don't seem to throw anywhere near what the charts say they will. They do what they do pretty consistently, but you've got to check 'em with a scale to be sure of exactly what that is. Lee's dimensional control doesn't seem to be that great. Which really isn't surprising considering what their stuff costs. Inexpensive? Yep. Reliable? For me, it has been. Precise? Nope, and for the money, how could it be? Precision costs. It mandates extremely careful design, limits the lifespan of tooling, and requires you to scrap a lot more parts per run. All that adds up quick. Compare the cost of a +/- .001" caliper and a +/- .0001" one, you'll see what I mean. That extra decimal place (x10 precision) ups the cost by more like x20, if not more.

Hope that was worth the time it took to read,

--Shannon

 

[BAGTIC]

I have been casting for 37 years. HBWC and WC are not interchangeable. Too high pressures can deform the hollow based, especially in .357, resulting in poor accuracy, etc.

Be careful what lead bullets you use with full power loads or you can find your bore plastered with lead. For beginners it is safest to use hardened lead cast bullets. The experts may get by with softer bullets but you are not an expert yet and bad early experiences could, unwarrantedly, turn you off lead bullets altogether. Learn to crawl before you run.

The most common mistake new cast bullet shooters make is using too small diameter a bullet. Better .002-.004 too big than too small. I believe that you should start with the largest diameter that will chamber in your gun. It is easier to later work down than it is to start small and work up. At least on the way down pressures should be diminishing thereby adding to the safety margin instead of decreasing it.