Not Yet A Player, But At Least Now I'm In The Game

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Follow this thread: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ad-link-required.883031/page-63#post-12213382
We keep each other pretty up-to-date and where things are available and mostly at the best possible prices.

You will get LOTS of support for your Dillon on THR. Some of the higher-volume loaders are Dillonistas and are very good about helping newbies out. You may need to cash in your 401K or take out a second mortgage by the time they're done "helping" you - but help they will! Some people call it enabling but, what's in a word, right? ;)
I know, right? Give it a name. :)
How about Winchester 244? I have found a pound of this from a name brand and reputable source in stock and ready to go. Kinda high but...
 
A reasonable choice. I was looking at the 750 as a step up from my 550 but not as expensive as another 1050 before the panicdemic shortages.

I find caliber conversions to be tedious and only do it when necessary. You might consider using .45 Auto Small Primer brass to avoid having to change out the primer feed. Assuming you can find small pistol primers.
I can probably provide a PIF of some SPP .45ACP cases if he decides to go that route.
 
I have used W231 or HP38 about 40 years, ever since the rep at CH told me it was what they used to test their powder measures and would not give me the funny results I was seeing trying to use my shotgun's 700X for pistol loading.

I have lights on and behind my presses so I can look for the presence of a powder charge as I set a bullet under the seating die. If you want mechanical support, Dillon sells a powder check and RCBS a lockout die.

Yes, sir, I bought the light kit that mounts to the press as well. Seemed like a good option to me. I DO believe in a well-lit area of operation.
 
Commonly said of fast burning pistol powders, but really, it is the conventional 10% from start to maximum.
I was referring to the projectile choices - or lack thereof. Hodgdons typically shows more than just two bullets for a weight class.
 
Follow this thread: https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ad-link-required.883031/page-63#post-12213382
We keep each other pretty up-to-date and where things are available and mostly at the best possible prices.

You will get LOTS of support for your Dillon on THR. Some of the higher-volume loaders are Dillonistas and are very good about helping newbies out. You may need to cash in your 401K or take out a second mortgage by the time they're done "helping" you - but help they will! Some people call it enabling but, what's in a word, right? ;)

Dillonistas...lol!:D
 
I don't feel a need for multiple brands of the same type, but them sticking with the discontinued Hornady flat point is annoying.
I have to wonder why they don’t include at least the Speer FMJ and at least one plated bullet. 230gr is a pretty common weight for .45ACP and Hodgdon is usually pretty good about spreading the data around for their powders. Still I think it’s enough to work with.
 
10 Advices for the novice loader

I put together an arbitrary list that I think is illuminating. I call it my Ten Advices.

I have thought of a few things I think are useful for handloaders to know or to consider which seem to be almost universally mentioned, so I put together this list of 10 advices.


Much is a matter of personal taste and circumstance, though. So, all advice carries this caveat, "your mileage may vary".


When I bought my first gun (.357 Magnum Dan Wesson revolver), I bought, at the same time, a reloading setup because I knew I could not afford to shoot if I did not reload my own ammo. It cost me about 1/4 of factory ammo per round and paid for itself pretty quickly.

My setup was simple. A set of dies, a press, a 2" x 6" plank, some carriage bolts and wing nuts, a scale, two loading blocks and a couple of manuals

I just mounted the press on the plank wedged into the drawer of an end table. I did not use a loading bench at all.

Good leverage on the press meant the table did not lift or rock. I still use the same plank, but now it is mounted in a Black & Decker folding workbench. A loading bench "bolted to the center of the earth" would be more stable, but I do not feel deprived without it.


So you can better evaluate my words, here is a summary of my experience. I load for handguns (44 Mag, 45 ACP, 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 9mm, 357 Mag, 480 Ruger) a couple hundred per sitting and go through 100 to 500 centerfire rounds per month. I don't cast....yet.


I still believe in a minimalist approach and and try to keep my inventory of tools low. I do not keep my loading gear set up when not in use, either, but pack it away in small toolboxes until the next loading session.


Now, here are my Ten Advices.


Advice #1 Use Reliable Reference Sources Wisely - Books, Videos, Web Sites, etc.


Study up in loading manuals until you understand the process well, before spending a lot of (or any) money on equipment.


Read as many manuals as you can, for the discussion of the how-to steps found in their early chapters. The reason you want more than one or two manuals is that you want to read differing authors/editors writing styles and find ones that "speak" to you. What one manual covers thinly, another will cover well so give better coverage of the subject; one author or editor may cover parts of the subject more thoroughly than the others. The public library should have manuals you can read, then decide which ones you want to buy. Dated, perhaps but the basics are pretty unchanging, unlike loaed data..

As far as load data in older manuals, the powder manufacturers and bullet manufacturers may have better information and their web sites are probably more up to date. But pay attention to what the ammunition was test-fired from. (regular firearm vs a sealed-breech pressure test barrel, for example)

The reason you want more than one or two is that you want to read differing authors/editors writing styles and find ones that "speak" to you. You also get better coverage of the subject; one author or editor may cover parts of the subject more thoroughly than the others.




I found "The ABC's of Reloading" to be a very good reference. Containing no loading data but full of knowledge and understanding of the process. I am told the older editions are better than the newer ones, so the library is looking even better than new and you can taste-test the writing style.

Richard Lee's book "Modern Reloading" has a lot of food for thought, and does discuss the reasoning behind his opinions (unlike many manuals, and postings). Whether right or wrong, the issues merit thought, which that book initiates. It is not a simple book, though and you will find it provocative reading for many years.

There are instructional videos now that did not exist in the '70s when I started, but some are better than others. Filter all casual information through a "B.S." filter.


Only after you know the processing steps of loading can you look at the contents of of a dealer's shelves, a mail-order catalog or a reloading kit and know what equipment you want to buy. If you are considering a loading kit, you will be in a better position to know what parts you don't need and what parts the kits lack. If building your own kit from scratch, you will be better able to find the parts that will serve your into the future without having to do trade-ins.

The public library should have manuals you can read, then decide which ones you want to buy.

There are instructional videos now that did not exist in the '70s when I started.


Advice #2 All equipment is good. But is it good FOR YOU?


Almost every manufacturer of loading equipment makes good stuff; if they didn't, they would lose reputation fast and disappear from the marketplace. Generally you get what you pay for and better equipment costs more. Cast aluminum is lighter and less expensive but not so abrasion resistant as cast iron. Cast iron lasts practically forever. Aluminum generally takes more cleaning and lubrication to last forever. Just think about what you buy. Ask around. Testimonials are nice. But if you think Ford/Chevy owners have brand loyalty, you have not met handloaders. Testimonials with reasoning behind them are better. RCBS equipment is almost all green, Dillon-blue, Lee-red. Almost no manufacturers cross color lines and many handloaders simply identify themselves as "Blue" or whatever. Make your own choices.


About brand loyalties, an example: Lee Precision makes good equipment, but is generally considered the "economy" equipment maker (though some of their stuff is considered preferable even to more expensive makes, as Lee has been an innovator both in price leadership which has introduced many to loading who might not otherwise have been able to start the hobby and in introduction of innovative features like their auto-advancing turret presses). But there are detractors who focus on Lee's cheapest offerings to paint even their extremely strong gear as inferior. My advice: Ignore the snobs.


On Kits: Almost every manufacturer makes a kit that contains everything you need to do reloading (except dies and the consumables). A kit is decent way to get started. Eventually most people wind up replacing most of the components of the kit as their personal taste develops (negating the savings you thought the kit gave you), but you will have gotten started, at least.


On building your own kit: The thought processes you give to assembling your own kit increases your knowledge about reloading. You may get started a couple weeks later than if you started with a kit, but you will be far ahead in knowledge.

RCBS and Dillon seem, by most reports, the best warranty service. But that is reflected in the original purchase prices. Lee has a one year warranty at half the purchase price. You pays your money and you makes your choice. If you buy the higher-end Lee stuff, use the heck out of it the first year (to week out any true manufacturing defects), and give the gear good maintennce, it will last as long as as well as RCBS.

Cast iron lasts practically forever. Lee makes good equipment, but is generally considered the "economy" equipment maker, though some of their stuff is considered preferable to more expensive makes. Just think about what you buy.

Almost every manufacturer makes a kit that contains everything you need to do reloading (except dies and the consumables). A decent way to get started without too much prior experience. Eventually most reloaders wind up replacing most of the components of the kit as their personal taste develops, but you will have gotten started, at least..



Advice #3 While Learning, don't get fancy.

You may think about options such as progressive, turret or Single Stage? Experimental loads? Pushing performance envelopes?


Most people advise to learn on a single stage press or a turret press used as a single stage and not to learn on a progressive press. While progressives can be used to perform one operation at a time, the machinery is more complex and divides you attention. Progressive presses used as they are intended perform multiple funcions simultaneously and (in the opinion of many) have too many things happening at the same time to keep track of while you are learning. What you choose is up to you,


While you are learning, stay below maximum power levels (and do not go below book minimums, either). Propellants are designed to run best within a fairly narrow performance envelope. Start in the lower portion of it and stay in the mid-range of that envelope. While you are at it, check several different sources for recipes. Different ballistics labs use different guns, primers and conditions and get different results. Look at the range of values in the recipes and stay in the mid-range. Just concentrate on getting the mechanical steps of loading right and being VERY VERY consistent (charge weight, crimp strength, bullet seating depth, primer seating force, all that). Use a voluminous, "fluffy", powder that is, one that is easy to see that you have charged the case and which will overflow your cartridge case if you mistakenly put two powder charges in it.


While learning, only perform one operation at a time. Whether you do the one operation 50 (or 20) times on a batch of cases before moving on to the next operation - "Batch Processing" or take one case through all the sequence of operations between empty case to finished cartridge - "Continuous Processing", sometimes known as "Sequential Processing", learn by performing only one operation at a time and concentrating on THAT OPERATION. On a single stage press or a turret press, this is the native way of operation. On a progressive press, the native operation is to perform multiple operations simultaneously. Don't do it. While you can learn on a progressive press, in my opinion too many things happen at the same time, thus are hard to keep track of (unless you load singly at first). Mistakes DO happen and you want to watch for them ONE AT A TIME. Until handloading becomes second nature to you.


Note: A turret press is essentially a single stage press with a moveable head which can mount several dies at the same time. What makes it like a single stage rather than a progressive is that you are still using only one die at a time, not three or four dies simultaneously at each stroke.


On the Turret vs Single stage the decision is simpler. You can do everything on a Turret EXACTLY the same way as you do on a single stage (just leave the turret stationary). That is, a Turret IS a single stage if you don't rotate the head.


Learning on a progressive can be done successfully, but it is easier to learn to walk in shoes than on roller skates.


Also, a good, strong, single stage press is in the stable of almost every reloader I know, no matter how many progressives they have. Most keep at least one.


Advice #4 Find a mentor.


There is no substitute for someone watching you load a few cartridges and critiquing your technique BEFORE you develop bad habits or make a dangerous mistake. (A mistake that might not have consequences right away, but maybe only after you have escaped trouble a hundred times until one day you get bit, for instance having case lube on your fingers when you handle primers; 99 times, no problem because primers are coated with a sealant, but the hundredth primer may not be perfectly sealed and now winds up "dead")


I started loading with the guy who sold me my press watching over my shoulder as I loaded my first 6 rounds to make sure I did not blow myself up, load a powderless cartridge or set off a primer in the press. I could have learned more, faster with a longer mentoring period, but I learned a lot in those first 6 rounds, as he explained each step. I educated myself after that. But now, on the internet, I have learned a WHOLE LOT MORE. But in-person is still the best.


After you have been mentored, mentor someone else. Not necessarily in loading or the shooting sports, but in SOMETHING in which you are enthusiastic and qualified. Just give back to the community.


Advice #5 Design your loading space for safety, efficiency, ease, cleanliness

Design your loading algorithm and your bench as if you were the architect of a factory floor (as, indeed, you are building your own ammo factory). You are your own quality control department as well as production supervisor. Your loading bench/room is tantamount to a factory floor. There is a whole profession devoted to industrial engineering, the art and science of production design. Your loading system (layout, process steps, quality control, safety measures, etc) deserves no less attention than that.

I cannot emphasis strongly enough that you MUST design your loading process (algorithm) and lay out your loading bench carefully. Think of your loading area the way a production designer thinks of his factory floor, because that's what it is. With a factory's QC (Quality Control), safety procedures, producton rate, whole set of design parameters, all of it. Treat your loading bench as if you were Henry Ford designing his first assembly line, or Beam, Inc (a distillery is the epitomy of batch processing, isn't it?). You can get the optimum of all your goals, safety, quality, accuracy, efficiency no less than if you were head of production at Hornady or Remington.

For example, consider the word "workflow". Place your components' supplies convenient to the hand that will place them into the operation and the receptacle(s) for interim or finished products, too. You can make a significant increase in safety and in speed, too, with well thought out design of your production layout, "A" to "Z", from the lighting to the dropcloth to the fire suppression scheme.

One factor often neglected is where the scale is located. Place your scale where it is protected from drafts and vibration and is easy to read and operate, eye level, in good light, etc.


Advice #6 Keep Current on loading technology


Always use a CURRENT loading manual. Ballistic testing has produced some new knowledge over the years and powder chemistry has changed over the years, too. They make some powders differently than they used to and even some powder names may have changed. However, if you are using 10 year old powder, you may want to check a 10 year old manual for the recipe. Then double check with a modern manual and then triple check with the powder maker.


Read previous threads on reloading and watch videos available on the web. But be cautious. There is both good information and bad information found in casual sources, so see my advice #10.

Read previous threads on reloading.
http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=13543
This one is a thread started by a new recruit to reloading which the moderators thought highly enough of to make it "sticky" so it stays on the top of the list of threads.


Advice #7 You never regret buying the best (but once)


When you buy the very best, it hurts only once, in the wallet. When you buy too cheaply it hurts every time you use the gear. The trick is to buy good enough (on the scale between high quality and low price) to keep you happy without having overpaid for features you don't need. "The delicious flavor of low price fades fast. The wretched aftertaste of poor quality lingers long."


Advice #8 Tungsten Carbide dies (or Titanium Nitride) rather than tool steel.

T-C dies instead of regular tool steel (which require lubrication for sizing your brass) for your straight-walled cartridge cases. T-C dies do not require lubrication, which will save you time. Carbide expander button for your bottlenecked cases. Keeps lube out of the inside of the cases.


Advice #9 Safety Always ... Safety All Ways.


Wear eye protection, especially when seating primers. Gloves are good, too, especially if using the Lee "Hammer" Tools. Children (unless they are good helpers, not just playing around) are at risk and are a risk. Pets, too unless they have been vetted (no, not that kind of vetting). Any distractions that might induce you to forget charging a case (no charge or a double charge, equally disturbing). Imagine everything that CAN go wrong. Then imagine everything that you CAN'T imagine. I could go on, but it's your eyes, your fingers, your house, your children (present or future - lead is a hazard, too. Wash after loading and don't eat at your bench). Enough said?


Advice #10 Take all with a grain of salt.

Verify for yourself everything you learn. Believe only half of what you see and one quarter of what you hear. That goes double for everything you find on the internet (with the possible exception of the actual web sites of the bullet and powder manufacturers). This advice applies to my message as much as anything else and especially to personal load recipes. Hare-brained reloaders might have dangerous habits and even an honest typographical error could be deadly.

I heard about a powder manufacturer's web site that dropped a decimal point once. It was fixed REAL FAST, but mistakes happen. I work in accounting and can easily hit "7" instead of "4" or a "3" instead of a decimal point because they are next to each other on the keypad.


Good luck.


Lost Sheep
 
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I note that a mistake in loading is not likely to present itself to you until you actually fire the defective round.

An overcharged cartridge may damage the gun, operator and bystanders, obviously.

An uncharged or undercharged cartridge may not make itself known until you fire the following round. Undercharged, a bullet may wind up lodged in the barrel and the next round can be more explosive than an overcharged cartridge.
 
Finding some large and small primers on gun broker. Average price is around $150/1000. Is this really just too much to pay give the climate of today's market? Should I hold out to see if can find some cheaper elsewhere?

You also might be charged for shipping. Considering that 2 years ago the going rate was $35 per 1000 I shake my head.

But whether you shop around or spring for $150 + depends on how quickly you need them.
 
Finding some large and small primers on gun broker. Average price is around $150/1000. Is this really just too much to pay give the climate of today's market? Should I hold out to see if can find some cheaper elsewhere?

As been already stated....keep an eye on the "Where are the components" thread.
It's updated quite often by members, and you'll find, with a little patience, you will find prices much better than that...:)
You have waited this long to start, no need to rush it now....
 
Finding some large and small primers on gun broker. Average price is around $150/1000. Is this really just too much to pay give the climate of today's market? Should I hold out to see if can find some cheaper elsewhere?
Midway and Brownells have primers quite often. They come in and go out of stock multiple times during the week.
People usually put a notice in the "Where are the components..." thread when they come in stock. Although, actively checking those sites may prove more fruitful than waiting for someone else to post about it.
 
Finding some large and small primers on gun broker. Average price is around $150/1000. Is this really just too much to pay give the climate of today's market? Should I hold out to see if can find some cheaper elsewhere?
Also please be aware not all of the sellers on GB are strictly following ethical standards. The legalities surrounding shipping explosives are kind of cumbersome and confusing. Stick with known quantities and resellers: Midway, Midsouth, Brownell's, Powder Valley, etc. etc. as shown on the "Where are components..." thread.

Two other things about that: law enforcement agencies routinely perform "sting" operations to find and prosecute people who skirt the law. That's their job and we pay them to do it. We can bicker and argue about whether or not those kinds of things related to buying and selling primers is right or needs to be prioritized over other more serious crimes or not but, the point is, the Post Master General (or whoever prosecutes) will punish the receiver of illegally mailed goods as well as the sender. You are probably going to be easier to find and prosecute than the GoneBroker seller. The best way not to get in trouble with Johnny Law is not to do anything illegal. ;)
 
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