Now that's how you do it Lee

mdi said:
Tool snobbery. Not researching. Believing "Internet Wisdom". Following what "they" said. Thinking that "if it costs more, it's better, right?" Like the many posts about the RCBS bench prime; worse tool design I've seen in a long time (cannot use right out of the box, needs riser, or handle must stick out over bench edge 6". Primer tubes wagging back and forth in front of the user's face, etc.). If the same tool was painted red with "Lee" on the side the complaints would be endless...
Click to expand...

Oh, what the heck, I need a break from replacing CV axles on my pickup, so I'll bite!

I base my statements on over 40 years of handloading experience and nothing else. Not research, not internet forums, just experience.

The last time I counted my bullets molds I stopped when I got to sixty. Lee, RCBS, NEI, Accurate, NOE, Arsenal, Lyman/Ideal, H&G, SAECO and Miha all occupy the ammo cans and work bench drawers where I store my molds. I'm very serious about bullet casting, have high expectations for the bullets and use those bullets for such things as handgun hunting, in our local High Power (reduced course) matches and 200 and 300 yd. target shooting on the ranges I have at my house. The Lee molds I've bought over the years are generally the worst quality molds I've owned. To be sure, I've actually bought some that cast decent bullets that are fine for informal and short-range shooting, but the soft aluminum they use for their molds mean they wear out more quickly than those brands that use harder aluminum. (As a machinist, you should understand that better than any of the rest of us) This means the sprue plates easily score the top of the molds and the steel screws that hold the sprue plates on will eventually strip out their holes.
A few years ago I bought one of their 452-255-RF molds and was in my first session with it, merrily casting away when I looked down and one of the alignment pins was laying on the towel on which I was dropping the bullets from the mold. This really surprised me because I'm very gentle with my molds when casting to the point that I open the sprue with a gloved hand. Anyhoo, I carefully put the pin back in the hole and went back to casting and it fell out again, (no surprise, really). I figured what's the point of spending $10 to return a $30 mold to Lee? Undeterred, I later bought one of their 6-cavity 429-240-2R's thinking they'd be OK for 25 yd. plinking in my .44 Special's. But when I pushed them through my lubrisizer I noticed some were noticeably more difficult to push through than others, so I grabbed a mic and checked several of them, finding several thousandths difference in diameter. Then I weighed a handful of them and found of over 5 grs. weight difference. Many years ago I got in on a Group Buy for a Lee mold designed for .303 British rifles with oversized groove diameters. It was/is the biggest piece of junk mold I've ever bought. Period. The bullets were unuseable for anything but very short range plinking. So now when I'm tempted to buy a Lee mold, in my mind I take the $30 a 2-Cavity Lee would cost and deduct it from the price of a 2-cavity Arsenal mold, which means I'm actually getting a high-quality mold for less than $45, one that will last longer and will have resale value. Like I said, some of my Lee molds cast decent bullets, but if 50% of my Lee molds are OK and 50% are useless, that means I'm actually paying 50% more for the ones that are OK.

qNKEpl7m.jpg

This is a Lee collet die I bought to load .303 British with several years ago. The collet cap, like their molds, is made of very soft aluminum, and after screwing it in and out of the steel die body over the course of a few months the threads stripped out. So I just bought a steel bolt and made my own. Lesson learned.

I shot CAS for a period which requires loading lots of ammunition. When I began looking into buying a progressive loader I found the usual versions of Lee's for sale by individuals. When asked why they were selling their Lee progressives, the answer was always the same; "Oh, I'm going to upgrade to a Dillon.", or Hornady or (fill in the blank). Granted, that's not first-hand experience, but multiple statements such as those, coupled with my experiences, speaks volumes to me.

I actually use and like a some of their products- I've worn out a couple of their original hand priming tools (no longer made) and replaced them with the same and keep one on my loading bench for small pistol and small rifle primers. I also like their 2nd generation hand priming tools and keep one on my bench for large pistol and rifle primers. Their all-steel dies are pretty good too as long as one doesn't need to adjust the decapping stem much. I also used to use their push through bullet sizers quite a bit, prior to buying my Star lubrisizer. Their collet-style crimp dies are the berries for crimping cast bullets in cartridges such as the 32-20, 38-40 & 44-40's.

So, what I've figured out is it's mostly about expectations; for those of us who are low-volume shooters and shoot informally, Lee is probably just fine. So if Lee works for you, I'm very happy for you!

35W
 
mdi said:
Having read Lee Hater's since I started watching reloading forums in 2006. Over the first 10 or so years I would try to duplicate the complaints and found 98% were just operator error (Lifetime machinist/mechanic here and quite familiar with proper use of all kinds of hand tools). Or maybe I'm the most fortunate reloader around and have had absolute minimal problems with all the Lee tools I have purchased. Most of the Hater's complaints are like the guy that condemns their Harbor Freight blade screwdriver because it doesn't work for a prybar for removing the rusted brake shoes from his '90 Chevy. Many just parrot other complaints from forum members, to sound "experienced". I have maybe 11 Lee die sets, 5 sizing dies, Lee hand primer, a dozen bullet molds, 4 case trimmers and a dozen other Lee tools along with a metric ton of assorted tools by all manufacturers and if I need a new tool, I won't hesitate to buy Lee...

Rant over...
Click to expand...



Same here. I’ve even bought some of the Lee products to see what the complaining was all about. Bought a Pro 1000 that worked out really well. As long as I didn’t let the primers get low I had no issues. Really important to use the “Lee Handle Rhythm”. Loaded a few thousand 38spl and boxed it back up. Loaded well over 50k (70 to 80?) rounds on a Loadmaster. That press works well. Boxed it back up, too. Played with the Pro 4000 for awhile and really liked it, boxed up. Playing with the 6000 as time allows, now. Their hand primers, bench primers were somewhat problematic if used hard or carelessly. The APP was a lot of fun (boxed). LCT is a great press (gave that one away to a new reloader). Classic Cast Single Stage Breechlock is a fine single stage. Still use it since you just need a single stage on the bench. For some reason I really like playing with the Lee presses. They’re just a lot of fun. Disclaimer: I don’t mind a little tinkering and problem solving. Mainly use a Dillon 650 for boring, no thrills, or excitement reloading.

Lee brought reloading to we the unwashed masses. Little effort and common sense on your part and you’ll be happy with them. Customer service is great. They send out the occasional lemon same as the rest. I’ve had way more lemons from Hornady. Probably just my luck with Hornady. Lee’s willingness to provide all the replacements and spares you need for the cost $7.50 shipping (last I checked) is phenomenal. Don’t understand the magnitude of the seemingly intense hate. It ain’t all that.
 
Probably work for one of the competitors.....

Worst dies I have are actually Lyman.
Chrome plating coming off, deeply over sizing cases, setting shoulders back if set for full length sizing. Not compatible with other makes in some regards. (Shell holders).

But, they still “work”.
Just need to know/understand the peculiarities...
I have Lee, RCBS. Hornady, Lyman, and many others. Only thing I don’t have are Redding...
I need to correct that!
They all CAN load good ammo!
 
Last edited:
I've used the following Lee Precision products:
Universal Case Expander
Pistol Die Sets
Factory Carbide Crimp Die
4-Hole Classic Turret Press
Universal De-capping Die
New Auto-Prime hand priming tool
Two-cavity Pistol Molds
Pro 4 Casting Pot
APP
Powder Funnel
Case Feed Magazine with Collator
Ultimate Lock Rings with Press Adapter

Of those, I still regularly use about half of them. The only ones I regard as a reasonably good value are the Universal De-capping Die, New Auto-Prime hand priming tool, Two-Cavity Pistol Molds, Powder funnel, Case Feed Magazine with Collator, and the Ultimate Lock Rings with Press Adapter. And of the Lee Precision products I've owned, the only ones I will recommend without reservations are the Powder Funnel and the Ultimate Lock Rings with Press Adapter.

I don't recommend many Lee Precision products because they so often have shortcomings or issues. That's obvious from the countless user improvements and YouTube videos illustrating those improvements. Lee Precision products are darlings of the Fix-It-Yourself Handyman world.
 
35 Whelen said:
If less expensive Lee products were really as good as other brands, then why would handloaders pay more for other brands?
Click to expand...

Why does the less reliable Rolex sell for many times the price of the more precise and reliable Timex?

Why does a Formula one car cost 12-15 million, can only haul one person with no luggage and I can get an new 45 ft diesel buss for 200k?

There can be more than one factor. If it doesn’t make sense at first sense, there probably are.
 
No matter the brand it seems that your 21st century reloading press is not complete without a 3D printer to make all the neat stuff the manufacturer didn't include.
 
BBarn said:
I've used the following Lee Precision products:
Universal Case Expander
Pistol Die Sets
Factory Carbide Crimp Die
4-Hole Classic Turret Press
Universal De-capping Die
New Auto-Prime hand priming tool
Two-cavity Pistol Molds
Pro 4 Casting Pot
APP
Powder Funnel
Case Feed Magazine with Collator
Ultimate Lock Rings with Press Adapter

Of those, I still regularly use about half of them. The only ones I regard as a reasonably good value are the Universal De-capping Die, New Auto-Prime hand priming tool, Two-Cavity Pistol Molds, Powder funnel, Case Feed Magazine with Collator, and the Ultimate Lock Rings with Press Adapter. And of the Lee Precision products I've owned, the only ones I will recommend without reservations are the Powder Funnel and the Ultimate Lock Rings with Press Adapter.

I don't recommend many Lee Precision products because they so often have shortcomings or issues. That's obvious from the countless user improvements and YouTube videos illustrating those improvements. Lee Precision products are darlings of the Fix-It-Yourself Handyman world.
Click to expand...
I’ll take anything you don’t want. :D
I’ll even pay shipping.
 
jmorris said:
Why does the less reliable Rolex sell for many times the price of the more precise and reliable Timex?

Why does a Formula one car cost 12-15 million, can only haul one person with no luggage and I can get an new 45 ft diesel buss for 200k?

There can be more than one factor. If it doesn’t make sense at first sense, there probably are.
Click to expand...

Why do 99% of forum threads discussing the lack of quality in reloading equipment always center around Lee?

35W
 
Didn't mean to start a punching match over Lee quality, just pointed out my surprise that I finally bought a die set that didn't need to be corrected in some way. What I don't understand is how Lee can finish the outside of their dies so nice but the business end of some appear to be finished with a grinder and bastard file. I've also had more than a few bullet sizing dies that were not finish sized to spec. I've since learned to buy them smaller, if available, then finish size them myself. I've had lots of examples of their handy work and should have taken pictures of every one but didn't.

Here's an example I had of a factory crimp die that would make quick work of ruining brass. Just look at that "Lee Precision" finished into the crimp sleeve. I emailed Lee with this same picture and all they said was to "send it to them" for evaluation at my expense.


fcd1.jpg
 
BC17A said:
Didn't mean to start a punching match over Lee quality
Click to expand...
It’s unavoidable on THR. You could start a thread about the cost of cheese in Holland and before the second page have a post complaining about Lee. It’s a religion on this site. Some of the Blue worshippers won’t leave you alone until you admit 2+2 not only equals 5 but All Things Blue are good and Richard Lee was a con artist. It’s how this forum is.
 
BBarn said:
Sorry, sold the stuff I didn't want to the Fix-It-Yourself crowd :D.
Click to expand...
That’s a shame. The odd thing is that I am a mod’er but have never had to modify anything from Lee. Frankford, Lymans, and RCBS, yes, but the Lee dies are good out of the box. The RCBS Uniflow and Lyman digital scale I have just about given up on. I do better and faster with Lee dippers and a 505 scale.
 
some of us are just cheap, or just cant afford to go blue. Lee has gotten more folks into reloading than probably all the other brands combined I'd guess. I started 30+ years ago with a Lee anniversary 'O' press kit ad no clue. no issues I didn't cause and it worked fine for many years loading 30-30, 7.62x39, 7.62x54R, 308, and 223. after a few years I got into pistol and got a loadmaster I could never get the priming to work on, so I handprimed all my brass and still do today. years later I started casting and broke a sprue on one, a handle on one, and had to polish two to get them to drop without beating them crap out of them. Never had a problem getting replacements for broken parts, even if I admitted I caused it. I have broken 4 reloader presses over the years, but I average 4 years and close to 60-70k rounds on them, and it is still my primary press for loading. That press is cheap enough to keep a couple on hand, and I have given a few away to get some folks started.

Now I could save up a little and get better quality tools, but lee does for me what i ask of it within expected limitations obviously. Lee has served my needs , at a quality level i'm happy with for a long time, and I'm sure will continue to do so. I did for years dream of a dillon, but it was never really an option for me as the cost was just prohibitive. My experience with lee has been favorable, I knew going into it some would require some fiddling(like the loadmaster) but it fit the budget and my needs, and was of sufficient quality to keep me loading.

Bottom line is lee works for the most part, some may need some cleanup or minor adjusting. if that's not for you, there are plenty of other brands available for other price points and with higher quality standards. Just keep in mind that comparing a brand that costs 3-5 times more is not a fair comparison.
 
I must apologize for beginning the tired old "Lee Haters" topic, I just have a pet peeve about those that decide the entire world be notified of their opinion (more often than not unfounded) of Lee products. I worked for a large city utilities dept, as an Auto/Heavy Equipment Electrician/Mechanic and saw first hand the "Tool snobs" that could go on for hours why his choice of Snap-On tools are the best tools in the entire world. The main difference between my MAC/Matco, Craftsman, OTC, or Proto tools is the high price of Snap-On. Same with reloading tools...

I'm done...
 
Most of my stuff is Lee because when i started out i didn't want to spend a lot of money if i didn't like it. 13 years later i still use Lee products because i had no reason to switch brands. It gave me quality ammo that shot well. (if it ain't broke don't fix it) I wore out the scale and upgraded to a Hornady 505 so i could weigh bullets. I am not a large volume shooter, maybe a few thou a year give or take, Yes i had to tweak some stuff a little, for instance, on 223 the drum measure bottom where the case neck hits the plug, the grooves from the machining needed to be polished up a little, so it wouldn't snag in the rim, no big deal, and the auto drum inserts needed a little smoothing up till they wore in, to seat properly, also no big deal. Over all i am happy.
 
35 Whelen said:
Why do 99% of forum threads discussing the lack of quality in reloading equipment always center around Lee?
Click to expand...

Again, probably multiple reasons.

What is the percentage of people who know nothing to begin with, that start with inexpensive products?

What is the chance that a new reloader is going to have problems with something he knows nothing about?

Instructions probably has a lot to do with it as well.

The Lee loadmaster manual didn’t really tell me what I needed to know to get their loadmaster running like a top. Took me two weeks to get mine right and I generally have decent mechanical skills.

https://leeprecision.com/files/instruct/LM3231.pdf

Contrast the 10 page LM manual to the 74 page one Dillon includes with their 750 for example. Do you think the much better informed Dillon user is more or less likely to come to resolution quickly if a problem occurs?
 
BC17A said:
Having batted around 500 with Lee products over the years, I took a chance on a set of their 30 Super Carry dies since they were about half the price of any others. My biggest gripe was the fact they over-use the tooling and the finish on their expanders and carbide inserts are less than desirable with some bordering on atrocious. Thankfully they must have used new sharp bits to produce the latest caliber dies because these are by far the best I've ever seen from Lee. This is actually the first time I won't have to do any polishing on a new die set.

View attachment 1126831 View attachment 1126832
Click to expand...
If you really could bat 500, you would be a God on earth.
Nobody has ever, batted 500.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/batting_avg_season.shtml


PS: I prefer Lee dies over all others for various reasons. Been reloading for over 40 years and have never seen a reason to bad mouth Lee products.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

B
  • Locked
Lee Die Question
2
Replies
46
Views
2K
The Bushmaster
The Bushmaster
C
  • Locked
Lee die problems in a progressive.??
Replies
7
Views
778
mdi
mdi
S
  • Locked
Carbide Die Question
Replies
15
Views
629
jr_roosa
J
H
  • Locked
Lee 38/357 dies
Replies
6
Views
827
lgbloader
L
Snowdog
  • Locked
Deluxe Lee dies are carbide? Seriously?
2
Replies
25
Views
1K
The Bushmaster
The Bushmaster
Back
Top