NRA-ILA, Urgent Florida Gun Bills need your help

[george burns]

DATE: February 11, 2015
TO: USF & NRA Member and Friends
FROM: Marion P. Hammer
USF Executive Director
NRA Past President
LINK: https://www.nraila.org/articles/20150211/fl-urgent-two-2-pro-gun-bills-up-in-committee-monday-21615
There will be the names and Emails of 5 people to send an email to addressing your feeling about these two issues.
One allows for Legal carry of your firearm during an evacuation, instead of the ridiculous law pertaining to not being able to carry and be subject to confiscation, The second is about the ability of carrying concealed on a College Campus. Look them over and do the right thing. This is how we keep our rights. We already agree on most things so let the people in power know how we feel about restricting our rights, and leaving out weapons behind when you might need them most.

 

[HRnightmare]

Jeb Bush passed a law in 2006 after Katrina not allowing confiscation or searches without warrants for this intent.
HB-285 - 1. Amends the Emergency Management Powers Act to prohibit the governor from ordering or authorizing the seizure, taking, or confiscation of firearms that are lawfully possessed, unless a persona is engaged in a criminal act.

 

[HRnightmare]

The current law that does NOT allow the governor or LE the authority to confiscate firearms unless being used in a crime was already passed 8 years ago right after Hurricane Katrina. Refer to HB285 and SB 568.

This seems to only protects those who do not have CWP's. I have one and have had it for about 10 years now. I am not the clown who decides he wants to get it two days before a hurricane hits, nor am I the same clown standing in Home depot hoping there is enough plywood or standing in the grocery store begging for bottled water. IT seems like that is who this law is for.


I agree with CCW on campuses but I do not think the current political climate of FL will allow this one to pass. This is mostly a bill to help procrastinator's. I wouldn't want anything to happen to anyone who does not deserve it, but if you are a man who needs to evacuate with your family and you wait until the car is packed to figure out how you are going to protect yourself or your family and have failed to do so, you are less of a man.

There are some criteria required to carry a firearm, like a very minimal competency test. I know many people who carry a firearm everyday legally and should not. This is going to put potentially hundreds of thousands if not millions more into a very packed and stressful environment.

I know a few people who own guns and I will NOT be around them with their guns either because of their anger or inability to handle them safely. I do not want those idiots out stuck in traffic in a high stress environment running away from a hurricane with a gun ghetto tucked into their wasteband.

 

[jhb]

The current law that does NOT allow the governor or LE the authority to confiscate firearms unless being used in a crime was already passed 8 years ago right after Hurricane Katrina. Refer to HB285 and SB 568.

This seems to only protects those who do not have CWP's. I have one and have had it for about 10 years now. I am not the clown who decides he wants to get it two days before a hurricane hits, nor am I the same clown standing in Home depot hoping there is enough plywood or standing in the grocery store begging for bottled water. IT seems like that is who this law is for.


I agree with CCW on campuses but I do not think the current political climate of FL will allow this one to pass. This is mostly a bill to help procrastinator's. I wouldn't want anything to happen to anyone who does not deserve it, but if you are a man who needs to evacuate with your family and you wait until the car is packed to figure out how you are going to protect yourself or your family and have failed to do so, you are less of a man.

There are some criteria required to carry a firearm, like a very minimal competency test. I know many people who carry a firearm everyday legally and should not. This is going to put potentially hundreds of thousands if not millions more into a very packed and stressful environment.

I know a few people who own guns and I will NOT be around them with their guns either because of their anger or inability to handle them safely. I do not want those idiots out stuck in traffic in a high stress environment running away from a hurricane with a gun ghetto tucked into their wasteband.

while pretty much everything you said is true.....we still can't fall into the elitist trap of we should but they shouldn't. we can and they can't. it's a dangerous slippery slope.......and i do realize what i just argued is a dangerous and slippery slope as well on the other side with unskilled and untrained folks and guns and possible chaos. we just have to decide which slope we can live with. i realize you have decided which slope you consider a worse of the two......this is more for everyone else to think about.....

although i agree with most if not all of your points......

 

[ChaoSS]

The current law that does NOT allow the governor or LE the authority to confiscate firearms unless being used in a crime was already passed 8 years ago right after Hurricane Katrina. Refer to HB285 and SB 568.

This seems to only protects those who do not have CWP's. I have one and have had it for about 10 years now. I am not the clown who decides he wants to get it two days before a hurricane hits, nor am I the same clown standing in Home depot hoping there is enough plywood or standing in the grocery store begging for bottled water. IT seems like that is who this law is for.


I agree with CCW on campuses but I do not think the current political climate of FL will allow this one to pass. This is mostly a bill to help procrastinator's. I wouldn't want anything to happen to anyone who does not deserve it, but if you are a man who needs to evacuate with your family and you wait until the car is packed to figure out how you are going to protect yourself or your family and have failed to do so, you are less of a man.

There are some criteria required to carry a firearm, like a very minimal competency test. I know many people who carry a firearm everyday legally and should not. This is going to put potentially hundreds of thousands if not millions more into a very packed and stressful environment.

I know a few people who own guns and I will NOT be around them with their guns either because of their anger or inability to handle them safely. I do not want those idiots out stuck in traffic in a high stress environment running away from a hurricane with a gun ghetto tucked into their wasteband.

Are you ok with "these idiots" driving around in a 3-6,000 lb. killing machine?


Your distaste for people who procrastinate does not change the fact that they are covered under the 2nd amendment.

 

[danez71]

This seems to only protects those who do not have CWP's.

I read the whole thing and after the additions and deletions it looks like its for all.



For the naysayers.... Whats the harm in this bill?

 

[hso]

Confusion and misinformation on the legislation can be cleared up by reading the actual bills.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2015/0290/BillText/Filed/PDF ...providing an exemption from criminal penalties for carrying a concealed weapon or a concealed firearm when evacuating pursuant to a mandatory evacuation order during a declared state of emergency
SB290 removes the penalty for a non permit holder to carry concealed in a mandatory evacuation. That's a change from the existing law requiring a carry permit for concealed carry and it would allow someone without a carry permit to carry concealed in that particular circumstance of a mandatory evacuation. It has nothing to do with confiscation of firearms nor does it have anything to do with those who already have a carry permit. It only allows those without a carry permit to carry concealed in an ordered evacuation. Whether that has any merit or not is a topic for another day.

http://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2015/0176/BillText/Filed/PDF
SB176 removes the language prohibiting carry on campus. Campus carry has been a hot topic in many RKBA discussions and this bill would remove the prohibition for someone with a carry permit on a college campus (just college).

Now that we actually have the text of the bills and know what they propose we can rationally address what support may be needed for them instead of parroting what others want us to believe. Let's not just swallow just any "kool aid" folks hand us, even if it is from the NRA/ILA.

 

[steelerdude99]

If they declare a "state of emergency" then they probably enact "Marshall Law", Under that premise it's entirely possible that you wouldn't be able to carry your weapon, with or without a license.
I believe they did this in New Orleans. I have my license for over 40 yrs. But if the NRA is concerned about it, then there must be a reason.

There are some who confuse Martial Law with calling in the State or National Guard (or military) for assistance after disasters. Martial Law strips power from the existing executive, legislative, and judicial branches of government and puts the military in charge. The previous police are just citizens under Martial Law.

 

[hso]

Discussions of Katrina are relevant to this discussion ONLY with respect to the laws that were passed afterwards preventing the abuses by government that took place in New Orleans. My state, FL, and other proposed and passed laws specifically preventing the state from confiscating firearms in emergencies like Katrina. If your post has disappeared because you tried to drag Katrina confiscations into THIS discussion of SB290 it is gentle warning to not drag the discussion off topic.

SB290 is a concealed carry piece of legislation that exempts citizens in FL from the current law requiring a carry permit to carry CONCEALED in the event of a mandatory evacuation. It would make concealed carry legal for people without permits in that circumstance only.

 

[HexHead]

The current law that does NOT allow the governor or LE the authority to confiscate firearms unless being used in a crime was already passed 8 years ago right after Hurricane Katrina. Refer to HB285 and SB 568.

This seems to only protects those who do not have CWP's. I have one and have had it for about 10 years now. I am not the clown who decides he wants to get it two days before a hurricane hits, nor am I the same clown standing in Home depot hoping there is enough plywood or standing in the grocery store begging for bottled water. IT seems like that is who this law is for.


I agree with CCW on campuses but I do not think the current political climate of FL will allow this one to pass. This is mostly a bill to help procrastinator's. I wouldn't want anything to happen to anyone who does not deserve it, but if you are a man who needs to evacuate with your family and you wait until the car is packed to figure out how you are going to protect yourself or your family and have failed to do so, you are less of a man.

There are some criteria required to carry a firearm, like a very minimal competency test. I know many people who carry a firearm everyday legally and should not. This is going to put potentially hundreds of thousands if not millions more into a very packed and stressful environment.

I know a few people who own guns and I will NOT be around them with their guns either because of their anger or inability to handle them safely. I do not want those idiots out stuck in traffic in a high stress environment running away from a hurricane with a gun ghetto tucked into their wasteband.

It amazes me how many people on here don't believe in the Constitution.

 

[HRnightmare]

It amazes me how many people on here don't believe in the Constitution.

I re-read my post and didn't see where I said I disagree with this law or wouldn't and hadn't already contacted my representatives to support it. I was just simply saying its not really about helping "all Floridians" or in the OP's words. It doesn't really help "we" because some of those included in "we" already have those rights because we have a CWP.

I also said allowing anyone and everyone to conceal a gun in a declared emergency would put alot of guns in the hands of untrained and unskilled people and could lead to chaos. I never said they don't have the right to it or shouldn't be able to.

I also said I know many people who shouldn't carry guns because they are not competent or level headed enough to do so. I am allowed to have an opinion, doesn't mean I am against the constitution.

You have the right to stand on your soapbox on the curb in NYC and scream "death to America, GD America, Pray for another 9/11" some people even exercise that right. Just because I won't write my congressman to defend that right for you doesn't mean I am against the 1st amendment!

 

[hso]

I do not want those idiots out stuck in traffic in a high stress environment running away from a hurricane with a gun ghetto tucked into their wasteband.

This is a fallacious argument wrt the proposed SB290 exempting concealed carry restrictions in a mandatory evacuation since nothing is actually going to stop thousands of Floridians carrying now in their vehicles without a permit and without incident all the time considering 790.25 allows carry in a private conveyance http://flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2014/Chapter790/All. People carrying in their car during a mandatory evacuation are no different. The guy or gal wearing a T-shirt with a pistol stuck into the waistband is no more dangerous regardless of the weather than if it were on the seat of the car/minivan/low rider. As such the weather is irrelevant and the only issue is whether concealed carry without a permit introduces any greater threat to the public in these circumstances where people would have their firearms in their car legally anyway and no rational argument can be made that CC vs. OC vs. car carry makes any difference in this narrow situation since CC is granted with nearly no serious requirements being imposed to get the CC permit and thousands of Floridians carry in their vehicles without a permit and without incident all the time.

It could be argued that while traveling in an evacuation the exemption for travel to/from camping would apply to someone carrying at that time.
http://flsenate.gov/Laws/Statutes/2014/790.25.

 

[george burns]

The way I perceived it was more like why would you have to leave your gun collection in an empty, unsecured house, "probably with no power, thus no alarm system, and no one to respond either way.
Would it not make more sense to put your valuables in the truck or family car, prior to heading to a friend or relative inland.
It would almost guarantee that looters would gain access and take your valuables ,guns, and all, and thus make the area more dangerous rather than have them in the hands of the owner.
Many have tens of thousands of dollars invested in their hobby, this would be like giving them away to the first looter who shows up, And they do show up.
Moving even the largest safe is easy enough if you have the time. Having moved a few in my day, once you get them on rollers they all move easily.
I think that the likelihood of a man leaving his guns in an empty house, especially if anyone knows he is a shooter is a surefire way of having them stolen, and no one is really going to do that when the time comes to actually have to leave. People also panic in situations like Hurricanes and do things that they normally don't do, including making bad decisions.
They should not be punished for wanting to keep what's theirs, even if they were too lazy to get a CCW when they could have.
As HSO pointed out, you can carry here in your vehicle without a permit anyway, just not on your person. so why would they make such a fuss about taking your guns with you, if it were not to set some sort of president down the road. You have to watch these guys, there is always a reason behind what seems like a simple,looking law.
It's never what it is presented as, there is a reason behind it.

 

[hso]

he way I perceived it was more like why would you have to leave your gun collection in an empty, unsecured house, "probably with no power, thus no alarm system, and no one to respond either way.

That's incorrect. Nothing in the current law keeps you from transporting your property, including firearms, and nothing in the proposed bill has anything to do with anything other than concealed carry. We've posted the legislation and explained what it covers and it is clear what it does, and does not, cover.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Florida "evac" bill: carry laws.....

I checked the NRA-ILA website on Fri and it stated the Florida bill to permit gun owners to carry firearms in declared emergencies(state mandated evacuations) went thru 12-0, .
Reportedly the state official from Fort Myers Florida who sponsored the new bill modified it to limit the period to only 48 hours past the time of a state/federal emergency.
This apparently got the political support of the Florida Sheriff's Assoc.
I, personally disagree with the new bill. Id say any lawful gun owner or FL resident(or non resident with a valid W/concealed license) should be able to open carry or CCW as long as they want or need to as long long as the license is valid or they have the valid document on their person(in their possession).
Florida G(armed) officers also should be allowed to carry either open or concealed as many firearms as they want or need during declared emergencies. Current Florida statues limit security/G officers to only 2 firearms.
Sworn LE and activated National Guard units don't have these stupid restrictions during state emergencies, citizens & license holders shouldn't be limited either.

I think the new bill for "concealed carry on college campus" went past the state committee but I don't think it was voted on yet by the Florida Assembly.
That's drawing a lot of anti gun/anti 2A rhetoric. Mostly media nitwits and anti gun student groups who rail on about $ for training security or adding new gun lockers/safes for "sterile areas".

 

[RustyShackelford]

Bloomberg, NRA ads...

Mikey B & his anti-gun goon squad have new TV ads in Florida claiming the "NRA stated in 1999 they don't want guns in schools!".
They are using a brief clip from 1999 of NRA honcho Wayne LaPierre saying; "guns do not belong in schools". This was in the aftermath of the tragic Columbine CO school shooting in 1999.
This pathetic pandering really irks me.
LaPierre was making a valid point about school children not adults on college campuses or trade/industrial schools.

These cheap stunts and media ads are what we 2A supporters & gun owners need to be aware of.
As for the remarks about not supporting the US Constitution I highly disagree.
We(the forum members) are not elected or vote/debate these gun or use of force bills in the Florida Assembly. Other than voting or asking for support of the state officials we have no say in how these state committees or assembles act(decide). The US Constitution has 0 to do with that part.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Quick update; Florida evac law.....

It looks like the bill to permit FL residents to carry/CCW firearms for 48hrs post-state mandated emergency passed & moved on to a regular vote by the FL assembly.
The Florida gov; Rick Scott gets a A rating from NRA-ILA so that bill looks like it will be a new Florida law very soon.

The guns on campus/college-university bill status is unknown. I will check on that later.

 

[oneounceload]

When it comes to gun ownership, Rick is a LOT better than Charlie Crist - who also got an A rating from the NRA when he ran as a Republican bit not so high as a Dem

 

[MedWheeler]

HRnightmare writes:

..some of those included in "we" already have those rights because we have a CWP.

Until Florida does away with the licensing requirement for concealed-carry, it can be argued that the "right" to which you refer actually does not exist. By requiring a license to carry, the state considers it a "privelige", and not actually a right. A "right" would extend to all citizens. This bill is simply to afford the means to carry, for purposes of self-defense, a concealed firearm during the first 48 hours following a mandatory evacuation order.

I also said allowing anyone and everyone to conceal a gun in a declared emergency would put alot of guns in the hands of untrained and unskilled people and could lead to chaos. I never said they don't have the right to it or shouldn't be able to.

I also said I know many people who shouldn't carry guns because they are not competent or level headed enough to do so.

Numerous states have adopted a so-called "Constitutional-carry" policy, accepting the existence of the actual "right" to carry with or without a government-provided pass. More appear to be on the way.
So far, it does not appear the carnage you fear from "unproven" souls going about armed has materialized. Would you be in favor of those states requiring, before any evacuation order being followed, those citizens evacuating to first line up to demonstrate proficiency with their weapons?

 

[RustyShackelford]

Legislators, symantics ....

While I agree with the concept of constitional carry in therory, I also say you can't legislate common sense or stupidity, .

Having the right to carry a loaded firearm(s) in public is good but with that right comes responsibility.
Citizens must follow the state laws/statues, keep the weapon(s) clean & in good condition. License holders and gun owners should also get formal skill training or learn how to properly use/carry the firearm too.

As gun ownership & CCW/gun licenses increase nationwide, some major gun companies & shooting sports firms are encouraging shooters/gun owners to learn proper methods or get skill training.

RS

 

[razorback2003]

Where were you not able to legally carry before the whole shall issue statewide license? I wouldn't be surprised if you could carry on college property up until the mid 80's in Florida.

 

[MedWheeler]

Razorback2003, it depended on what county you were in. Each of Florida's 67 counties had its own requirements, some being "may issue", some "shall issue", and some "no issue". Each also had its own regulations on where the permits were valid, and on who issued them (sheriff, PD, or county commission.)

Also, permits issued were valid only in the issuing county, and perhaps in some others that either reciprocated, or did not require one.

So, how's that for simplicity?

The statewide licensing system, though far from perfect, cleared up a lot when it went into effect in 1987. I was here for it (the year I was sworn in as a LEO, incidentally), and remember quite well the frenzied media reporting on the carnage that was sure to follow. They didn't say how soon said carnage would take place, though, and I'm still waiting...

 

[RustyShackelford]

George Zimmerman ....

The 02/26/2012 shooting death of Trevon Martin and subsequent criminal investigation of George Zimmerman in central Florida didn't help things.

Id add that the medium size city I live in(approx 900,000 people) had the wrong details re: citizens/CCW licensing for years.
They only recently corrected a few details but still do not fully answer the citizen questions. How to apply, how much it costs, where to go, etc.

My county's large sheriff's office does explain both CCWs, gun laws & how to get E fingerprint cards/B-G checks.

 

[oneounceload]

Until Florida does away with the licensing requirement for concealed-carry, it can be argued that the "right" to which you refer actually does not exist. By requiring a license to carry, the state considers it a "privelige", and not actually a right. A "right" would extend to all citizens. This bill is simply to afford the means to carry, for purposes of self-defense, a concealed firearm during the first 48 hours following a mandatory evacuation order.

And with the number of illegals in your area,(SE FL), WHO is going to check all those folks?
I, for one, am not too keen to going back to the "Miami Vice " days of the 80s

 

[MedWheeler]

Oneounceload writes:

And with the number of illegals in your area,(SE FL), WHO is going to check all those folks?

The same people who check them now.

Those so-called "Miami Vice" days had nothing to do with Florida's CWFL laws; that was about the drug trade (the "Cocaine Wars.")

I don't see the connection between them and being armed during the first 48 hours following an ordered evacuation.

Perhaps you wish to start a new thread on illegal immigrants and weapons?

Do you not think there are illegal immigrants in Arizona, already a "Constitutional-Carry" state, or in Nevada, likely soon to become one?