NWCN reports Clackamas shooter committed suicide after being confronted CCW holder.

[RX-178]

http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon/183609901.html

In summary:

CCW holder Nick Meli heard three shots from the shooter, and drew his handgun, and finding the shooter while he was apparently attempting to reload, or clear a jam from his rifle.

Seeing that the shooter was in between him, and other people who could possibly be hit with stray rounds, Meli did not open fire.

According to Meli, the shooter saw him with his pistol, and killed himself afterwards.

 

[rduchateau2954]

Yet that will never make the news...

 

[RX-178]

I would suggest that we take it upon ourselves to spread it around then.

 

[hso]

I think the last shot he fired

Until this is corroborated we better hold off spreading it around.

I appreciate the news station taking the position that CCW caused the shooter to stop his rampage, but "I think the last shot he fired" isn't the same as "He saw me with my weapon drawn and shot himself" corroborated by an independent witness.

We'll look pretty stupid if it turns out this young man and his friend are frauds and we hold him up as a hero.

 

[breakingcontact]

I'd really like to hear more about this.

 

[RX-178]

It's not exactly corroborating information, but this would make sense in the chain of events, at least statistically.

If the average deaths in a shooting rampage that is stopped by civilian intervention is 2.3, the death toll of 2 victims (not counting the shooter) goes from being a strange anomaly, to falling right in line with similar events.

 

[breakingcontact]

These gutless crows typically quit whenever they're presented with a threat.

People need to carry more and these kind of things can be limited and eventually these monsters may realize there aren't going to be anymore massacres, if they try and start one, it's going to be a shoot out. Then they can just go jump off a bridge or something instead.

 

[GEM]

It's too simplistic to say they quit. Their plan includes their death at a point where they accomplished the horror and don't want to be captured.

 

[Sam1911]

These gutless crows typically quit whenever they're presented with a threat.

I don't think that kind of thinking really reflects reality. Considering that all but the most extremely delusional killers are knowingly facing the probability and even certainty of death, and that many are seeking it as the natural end of their act, I don't agree that they're "gutless." It's a bit like calling suicide bombers or other terrorists "cowards." It makes us feel better by dehumanizing them, but it rings very hollow.

Some do indeed quail when finally confronted and threatened, but many are going for the big finish and will keep shooting until killed. They may be a lot of terrible things, but "gutless" really isn't one of them.

 

[RX-178]

It might have been a poor choice of words, but there is definitely a pattern of these individuals deciding to end their rampage at the time where they encounter resistance, or a police response (which unfortunately takes much longer).

The description of the shooter 'pulling the charging handle and hitting the side' of the rifle repeatedly probably shouldn't be discounted, but it's not unreasonable to think that he would have resumed firing on the crowd, instead of turning the gun on himself if the CCW holder had not confronted him.

 

[Apachedriver]

but it's not unreasonable to think that he would have resumed firing on the crowd, instead of turning the gun on himself if the CCW holder had not confronted him.

It would be or is unreasonable to state or spread things as facts that have not yet been proven regardless of how much we want them to be true.

That's exactly what the antigunners and the rest of the liberals do...they argue issues the way they want to see them as opposed to by the facts. We should not want to copy those mannerisms or tactics, inadvertently or otherwise.

ETA: I, for one, hope this story is true so it can be spread out and shared by any means possible. But it has to be verified first.

 

[hso]

Ya'll are making a lot of assumptions about what a madman would or wouldn't have done.

Look at the facts of mass shootings where there was no relationship to the who/where of the murders.

 

[Kleanbore]

CCW holder Nick Meli heard three shots from the shooter, and drew his handgun, and finding the shooter while he was apparently attempting to reload, or clear a jam from his rifle.

The WSJ reports that the gunman was armed with two semiautomatic pistols.

 

[krupparms]

We must look at what has worked in other places &times! Armed teachers & security guards worked in Israel. We guard our money, why not our children? They are much more important! Open carry as a deterrent to crime works! Let's make senseless killing harder for these people at least. Join a 2amd. group or help someone who cannot afford it. We must meet this head on or we will lose more than our right to carry &shoot!

 

[Water-Man]

Although possible, I think it's unlikely that a CCW holder was even carrying in the school.

 

[MedWheeler]

Water-Man, this is in reference to the Clackamas (Mall) shooting, in Oregon.

I wondered about the low impact/death rate when this shooting occurred as well. Statistically, the vast majority of "free-roaming", "random-target" mass-shooters do indeed commit suicide; they are not killed by police. They continue with their rampage until police arrive, then take themselves out. It's probably a control thing. They are indeed planning to die, but will not give control of even when that happens to anyone else.

 

[RBid]

This actually made it to KGW news.

It sounds like Meli made good decisions. While we don't know for certain that he ended the event (though this seems likely), this is a demonstration that CHL involvement did not escalate the scenario, or contribute to casualties.

 

[locnload]

I believe what Sam1911 said. These people generally plan on dying when they embark on this type of thing. Deranged yes, cowardly, maybe not so much. I think the reason they kill themselves when they are engaged by opposing force is that they want to avoid capture and the slow meat grinder that is the legal process, not death. Maybe in the case of the Mall shooter, after seeing the first couple of victims go down it didn't seem like such a great idea. That along with seeing someone elses gun bearing down on him, it was time to hit the "end" button.
At any rate, if the story is true, good for that young man. I would be more confident if he had issued verbal commands to drop the weapon so several witneses understood what happened, but we'll take what we can get in the CCW "positive" column.

 

[Water-Man]

withdrawn

 

[Water-Man]

withdrawn.

 

[AntiSpin]

NPR news this morning said two pistols and a Bushmaster.

And, for those days ahead that we all know are coming;

March 2012, NC Church shooting stopped by armed citizen
http://www.goupstate.com/article/201...120329781/1112

December 2007, CO Church shooting stopped by armed security guard
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/dec...ion/na-shoot11

April 2012, Salt Lake City mass stabbing:stopped by armed citizen:
http://www.abc4.com/content/about_4/...iNMfH.facebook

January 2002, Appalachian School of Law shooting stopped by armed citizens:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalac...f_Law_shooting

August 2012, TX mass shooting stopped by armed citizen (including saving the life of a cop who was pinned and taking fire from a gunman):
http://www.guns.com/texas-gun-owner-...out-10236.html

Pearl High School Shooting (stopped by principal with .45 auto)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting

Also, for what it's worth, I heard an interview with a psychologist who said that a study has shown that the the persons who carry out these tragedies fall into one of three distinct categories, and that the largest category by far are persons (almost entirely young white males) who are suicidally depressed.

That would seem to be borne out by the fact that so many shoot themselves at the end. What seems to be beyond understanding is why they would want to kill people they don't even know -- especially little children. Persons who would kill little kids have to be in a space that the rest of us cannot even imagine. They not only destroy those little lives, they destroy the lives of everyone who loved them -- forever.

The people of Newtown are going to be devastated for a long, long time.

 

[.455_Hunter]

Contact the tip lines of your local media sources. Given the events of yesterday, most are unaware of this development. I have already contacted mine and asked them to look into the story.

Probably won't help, but can't hurt...

 

[Dnaltrop]

We can only hope that this account is verified by Clackamas Town Center's internal security footage.

They just finished a large amount of remodeling in the area of the food court, replacing the old Ice skating rink with a new movie theater.

Please... PLEASE let this story be true, and reach wide circulation.

 

[JellyJar]

As I read the link the OP posted it is not certain that the shooter ever saw Meli.

It is possible that the shooter did not see Meli and therefore the presence of a CCW holder was immaterial to the outcome of this event.

I hope it is the other way round though.

 

[MachIVshooter]

I don't think that kind of thinking really reflects reality. Considering that all but the most extremely delusional killers are knowingly facing the probability and even certainty of death, and that many are seeking it as the natural end of their act, I don't agree that they're "gutless." It's a bit like calling suicide bombers or other terrorists "cowards." It makes us feel better by dehumanizing them, but it rings very hollow.

Well, Sam, I certainly wouldn't call someone who doesn't value thier own life "brave".

Risking your life or dying trying to help/protect other people is brave; Embarking on a heinous mission to harm others and accepting that your death is an eventuality of the situation is just conviction.

The WSJ reports that the gunman was armed with two semiautomatic pistols.

NPR news this morning said two pistols and a Bushmaster.

We're talkig about Clackamas, OR, not Newtown, CT.