NYC students ATTACK Minutemen founder!

[SolaScriptura139]

Yes, quite unlike conservatives, who think that freedom of speech only applies to white Christian Republicans.

Yeah, well, I'm a white Christian Republican, and I don't think that about freedom of speech at all. Every citizen of these United States has the right to free speech, and I definately don't agree with the comment, "they don't have the right to speak here." Just like I hate the crap that Phelps guy spews, but I'm not going to physically try to stop him from speaking. I love it when people make overarching generalizations and stereotypes, freshens my day... Free speech is just that, free speech, for all, whether you be conservative, liberal, nazi, whatever.

I'll get off the soapbox now. :banghead: :banghead:

 

[Keith Wheeler]

If it's that way in Arkansas, fine, but if you think that the rest of the country runs like that, perhaps you should travel.

Well that's a pleasant ad hominem.

In my personal experience, which ranges through a number of states and countries, those who call themselves "convservatives" tend to say things like this:

But we like people who think like us and act like us and live like us, which is just human nature.

or respond like this:

A Denver-area man filed a lawsuit today against a member of the Secret Service for causing him to be arrested after he approached Vice President Dick Cheney in Beaver Creek this summer and criticized him for his policies concerning Iraq.

 

[Keith Wheeler]

I love it when people make overarching generalizations and stereotypes, freshens my day...

Interesting that you didn't say the same thing about "The simple fact is that "liberals", "progressives", and many Democrats just do not believe in freedom of speach (unless you're insulting whites, Christians and/or Republicans)".

Free speech is just that, free speech, for all, whether you be conservative, liberal, nazi, whatever.

Case in point: http://www.carm.org

 

[buzz_knox]

Yeah, well, I'm a white Christian Republican, and I don't think that about freedom of speech at all. Every citizen of these United States has the right to free speech, and I definately don't agree with the comment, "they don't have the right to speak here." Just like I hate the crap that Phelps guy spews, but I'm not going to physically try to stop him from speaking. I love it when people make overarching generalizations and stereotypes, freshens my day... Free speech is just that, free speech, for all, whether you be conservative, liberal, nazi, whatever.

I was going to post something, but I think you speak rather eloquently on the subject.

It's always fun when people who complain about stereotypes due the exact same thing.

 

[ArmedBear]

Well that's a pleasant ad hominem.

I tend to respond to the words of a bigot with a cynical joke.

So, let me put it more simply:

Your blanket condemnation of half the country was certainly one of the more assinine things I've seen here in a while.

If you believe what you wrote, you are uninformed. If you don't believe it, you're a jerk and deserve to be treated as such.

It's not an ad hominem whenever criticism is directed at a person. Ad hominem means the attempt to win a debate by discrediting your opponent rather than his argument. It does not mean "any criticism of a person, when coupled with a snide comment about him."

 

[SolaScriptura139]

What's wrong with the link I have? It's a link defending Christian faith, how is that impeding on anyone's rights? I think you're just grasping for straws now. And by the way, I don't support the statement about liberals either.

 

[Keith Wheeler]

What's wrong with the link I have? It's a link defending Christian faith, how is that impeding on anyone's rights?

That site attacks Roman Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses.

Puts ya in some really good company there, doesn't it?


Edited to add:

Defense of faith: "I have a right to believe what I believe".

Attack of others faith: "I have the only true answer, the rest of you are all wrong!"

 

[buzz_knox]

Interesting that you didn't say the same thing about "The simple fact is that "liberals", "progressives", and many Democrats just do not believe in freedom of speach (unless you're insulting whites, Christians and/or Republicans)".

Perhaps his experience is similar to mine, which takes this from being a stereotype to something that is very real. Tactics that are used by the worst conseratives (or those who call themselves conservatives) such as denigrating the other side, or showing open contempt for ideas, beliefs, or interests are routinely used by the liberals and progressives. The incident under discussion is a prime example. I have yet to see a case where College Republicans stormed a stage, assaulted individuals, or even tried to shout them down. Yet those are the tactics I've come to expect from the so-called "most tolerant" political groups. They are only tolerant of their own beliefs.

As for the Secret Service incident, please take a few minutes and find out what occurred to those who had similar encounters with Clinton. It's not a liberal/conservative thing; it's a power thing.

 

[ArmedBear]

how is that impeding on anyone's rights?

Well, if you put a link somewhere, and someone is bored so they click on it and read what they find for a while, then they find out, "Oh, my G-d!!! This site talks about Christianity!" you've just impeded their right to cultivate their own special prejudices about Christians without any interference from the real world.

Did you not get the word from our overlords? The right to bigotry is inalienable, as long as someone's bigotry is directed towards Christians, caucasians, males, gun owners, or Republicans.

 

[Eightball]

They have no right to be able to speak here."

Really? Since when did the 1st Amendment not apply to the Minutemen?

And, technically speaking, do immigrants have the right to speak there, not being citizens of this great country?

 

[Keith Wheeler]

And, technically speaking, do immigrants have the right to speak there, not being citizens of this great country?

The founders of this nation acknowledged that rights come from G-d, not governments.

 

[ArmedBear]

That site attacks Roman Catholics

Yeah. A full frontal ATTACK on Catholics that starts:

It is necessary to write a page on Roman Catholicism because there are significant differences between Protestant and Roman Catholic doctrines. Protestants accuse the Catholics of being unscriptural and the Catholics state that the Protestants do not have the true faith carried through the centuries by the Catholic Church. Which ever side you fall on, the real issue is whether or not the Roman Catholic Church is representing true Christianity.
If you are a Roman Catholic, please understand that this site is not meant to offend you in any way. This site is dedicated to examining the truth, all truth, and compare it to the Bible.

So I suppose that Keith Wheeler, a Jew, has some problem with a theological statement about Roman Catholicism?

Perhaps I should ask why? What is wrong with a theological statement? Why does this offend anyone, or provoke an emotional response of any kind, in someone who isn't a Roman Catholic theologian? And even if one is a Roman Catholic theologian, the response would be to debate, not to call someone a bigot. And speaking of ad hominem...

Puts ya in some really good company there, doesn't it?

Funny thing is, Keith, I'm neither a conservative nor a Christian (at least in the sense that Sola would mean it, and I respect that definition). I just don't care for willful ignorance.

 

[Keith Wheeler]

Your blanket condemnation of half the country was certainly one of the more assinine things I've seen here in a while.

But the reverse comment condemning the other half was not?

 

[Keith Wheeler]

That starts with pleasantries such as:

If you are a Roman Catholic, please understand that this site is not meant to offend you in any way.

but ends with

Yes, Christianity is the one true religion. That may sound awfully dogmatic and narrow-minded, but the simple truth is that Christianity is the only true religion.

Their brand of Christianity. It's not willful ignorance. It's the "we're the keepers of the only secret truth and the rest of you are condemend" insanity that leads to some really ugly stuff happening.

Why do I, as a Jew, have a problem with this? Because this sort of thinking has led to the death of far too many Jews.

 

[Manedwolf]

If we have people sniping at each other with petty ad hominems here, the thread's going to get closed, and we're going to miss a place to discuss an actual threat to our safety and security in the form of increasingly hostile and violent pro-illegal groups. If things keep going as they are, some members here might be the target of "reconquista" violence.

So how about it? On-topic, take the fighting to PM's?

 

[jerkyman45]

This ought to be totally unbelievable, but it isn't. The socialists and the african-american coalitions just like to hop on bandwagon issues and make a scene. They are protest groups, therefore they go out of their way to find issues that they can cause a fuss about. Signs in Arabic? Demands that the man speak in Spanish? This behavior is outrageous and something needs to be done. This stranglehold on free speech cannot be tolerated.

 

[Art Eatman]

Click.