Obama - the real message.

[Ryanxia]

While I've been doing my part (donating, writing to reps, etc.) on a daily basis it's sad that so much time, effort and money has to go into preserving what's already been granted to us by the Constitution and should automatically shoot down any illegal laws.

 

[Grassman]

I disagree. I think this was the most dangerous part of his speech today;

"The president directed Attorney General Eric Holder to take a "fresh look" into whether the categories of people prohibited from buying firearms needs to be expanded or updated."

This gives Holder the green light to expand who can be denied from buying firearms. Soldiers returning from combat, people who sought mental health care voluntarily, anyone on the terrorist watch list, anyone on the no fly list, in fact just about anyone.

I'm in none of those categories, and frankly other than the returning soldier, shouldn't have firearms.

 

[CharlieDeltaJuliet]

Just using Eric Holder and gun rights in the same speech is an oxymoron. I agree that Holder shouldn't be allowed to manage a McDonalds after the F&F debacle. The main thing is not to drop our guard or let up on contacting our representatives. I feel today's speech was more smoke and mirrors, that do not even relate to the true agenda.

 

[JustinJ]

The SOLE defense gun owners have is grass roots campaigns, calling representatives, writing letters, e-mailing, and so on. We get no media coverage (that's positive). Meanwhile, the other side has been battering the NRA from every angle, essentially laying the dead bodies of children at their feet and saying "you caused this."

What? The NRA is an enormous, very well funded lobbying group with financial support coming from far more than private donations. I'm not criticizing but that premise is completely false.


Seriously though, at what point will those making the false Obama predictions quit? Rather than accept the conspiracy theories about the coming Executive Orders were nonsense people are now trying to spin reality into another end of the world conspiracy. Pundits never get held accountable for their BS predictions so i guess i shouldn't expect accountability for those who follow them either.

 

[DammitBoy]

I'm in none of those categories, and frankly other than the returning soldier, shouldn't have firearms.

Really? Anybody can be added to those lists with zero evidence. Had a buddy who fought for two years to get his name off of the no fly list, because his name was similar to someone else's name.

Heard of the Patriot Act or the NDAA?

 

[bigfatdave]

As the smoke clears in yet another skirmish to strip us of our 2A amendment rights, it’s important that we evaluate what transpired.
Each of us will undoubtedly come up with different conclusions. However, the one that most of us should agree on is that our voice was heard. If the POTUS thought he could unilaterally institute new gun laws, he would have. The Obama team read the tea leaves and was reduced to using the bully pulpit as its only means to garner support.

Also the lesson of NY state.

"Compromise" does not stop the enemies of the armed citizen, they are not appeased by "compromise" and will just want more later.
Remember back when 10x mags were "reasonable"? Now 7x mags are "reasonable" ... what's the next "reasonable" number to compromise on?

NO. MORE. COMPROMISES.

 

[bigfatdave]

Soldiers returning from combat, people who sought mental health care voluntarily, anyone on the terrorist watch list, anyone on the no fly list, in fact just about anyone.

I'm in none of those categories, and frankly other than the returning soldier, shouldn't have firearms.

If the no-fly or terror watch lists were transparent and had some kind of quality control, then maybe ... but as it stands those are people that aren't dangerous enough to even do a real investigation on.
The lists are junk, uncontrolled, un-audited, with no oversight. There is nothing to keep you off those lists if some worthless paper-pusher or TSA-level wannabe federal LE puts you on.

Those who seek mental care on their own are generally capable of making their own choices and filtering out good idea / bad idea.
That simply creates another uncontrollable list of people too dangerous to be real citizens, but not dangerous enough to investigate.

And I'll give you a pass, you surely didn't mean to include "just about anyone" as a category of prohibited persons.

 

[HOWARD J]

I thought Clinton got rid of the armour piercing ammo?
ASSAULT WEAPON: Does that mean any semi-auto center fire & any 22 cal with a mag holding more than 10 rds?

 

[Kingcreek]

There should no longer be any confusion over what a "community organizer" is and does. He just did it. It's the only thing he has ever done.
But it won't work this time. We are big enough and powerful enough to overcome all of the hype and propaganda and media bias IF we mobilize and motivate against them.

 

[JBrady555]

GALLUP: Americans far more concerned about economy, debt, unemployment and taxes than guns...

The average citizen doesn't seem to care so much about this. There is very little motivation in the average citizen to get involved in the gun control debate.

However, we happen to be an extremely motivated, vocal, and involved minority.

I have to agree with this statement. POTUS said many times over the last month about having the people on his side in this debate but the majority of the voices I heard were on our side. We must keep pressure on our elected officials though.

 

[Skribs]

There are a lot of people on the other side of the debate. The problem is that whenever our side is included, all we come away with is a response from our side saying "they won't listen."

 

[777TRUTH]

Trent, I think you nailed it.

This is only the beginning, not the end. The media is not gun friendly and will publicize every negative to get the country riled up.

Dig in for the long haul and do not become complacent.

 

[mbt2001]

I'm in none of those categories, and frankly other than the returning soldier, shouldn't have firearms.

Ever been to marriage counseling? That is therapy turn in your gun...

 

[22-rimfire]

New legislation will be introduced. Harry Reid has indicated (via Fox News) that he is not going to introduce gun control legislation to the Senate unless he has the votes. I suspect Boehner may do the same thing.

So in many ways, it is up to the American People in the sense that the President wants to mobilize political action to turn likely "No" votes into "Yes" votes when the legislation hits the floor... if it hits the floor.

 

[chipcom]

this pic should put Obama's speech into perspective



Obama is Kevin Bacon (the guy in uniform)...everyone else is us

(Not pictured: me, playing the role of Bluto)

 

[DammitBoy]

If the no-fly or terror watch lists were transparent and had some kind of quality control, then maybe ... but as it stands those are people that aren't dangerous enough to even do a real investigation on.
The lists are junk, uncontrolled, un-audited, with no oversight. There is nothing to keep you off those lists if some worthless paper-pusher or TSA-level wannabe federal LE puts you on.

Those who seek mental care on their own are generally capable of making their own choices and filtering out good idea / bad idea.
That simply creates another uncontrollable list of people too dangerous to be real citizens, but not dangerous enough to investigate.

And I'll give you a pass, you surely didn't mean to include "just about anyone" as a category of prohibited persons.

I don't need a pass. Anybody can throw anyone on any of those lists with no oversight, no audits, and no accountability.

Just about anyone could be added. How about a category like, "posts on a gun advocacy forum where some posters foment a call to arms" = terrorist watch list. All recently released soldiers are already on a terrorist watch list.

Who do you think Obama and company would not put on a list?

 

[Mousegun]

Hope this hasn't been answered or discussed before, I have been out of the loop for a few days but what is the consensus on the AWB as far as grandfathering in goes?

Is it a ban going forward or does it ban us from having and using 30 round mags and our AR's at the range if we already had them?

 

[bigfatdave]

DammitBoy - it wasn't you I was "giving a pass" - - I was giving grassman the benefit of the doubt that he didn't actually mean to include "just about anyone"

===

Hope this hasn't been answered or discussed before, I have been out of the loop for a few days but what is the consensus on the AWB as far as grandfathering in goes?

Is it a ban going forward or does it ban us from having and using 30 round mags and our AR's at the range if we already had them?

the consensus is that speculation is pointless and the crap bill NY passed is available for reading and dissection in a bunch of other threads

 

[Skribs]

Mousegun, if New York is any indication, it could be bad. They made previously-grandfathered magazines outright illegal, and 8-10 round mags you have 1 year to sell out of state. Can't even load them with more than 7 legally (like that will stop a gangster).

 

[22-rimfire]

Is it a ban going forward or does it ban us from having and using 30 round mags and our AR's at the range if we already had them?

The only thing that has been done is sign the executive orders. No legislation has been introduced and there are many hoops to jump in both the Senate and House BEFORE the president can sign or veto a passed bill. The President tends to think about ruling his subjects, but the reality is that he has limited power unless their is legislation already passed.

So nothing changes until legislation is PASSED. What the President says does not mean anything other than he is putting the responsibility onto Congress. We need action "right now".

 

[Trent]

Couple hours in and some sidebar discussions elsewhere... here's what I'm wondering.

From the press release:

o Call for Congress to remove restrictions that require ATF to authorize importation of dangerous weapons simply because of their age.

For the children, he attacks Curios and Relics! How many antique firearms are used in violent crimes!? Seriously, right out the gate he goes after collectors.

THAT certainly isn't about public safety.

It's about restricting small arms that are capable of being used against the government.


o PROTECT POLICE BY GETTING RID OF ARMOR-PIERCING BULLETS:
The President also is calling for legislation to finish the job of getting armor piercing bullets off the streets by prohibiting the possession and transfer of this dangerous ammunition, in addition to its manufacture and import.

* Finish the job of getting armor-piercing bullets off the streets: It is already
illegal to manufacture and import armor-piercing ammunition except for
military or law enforcement use. But it is generally still not illegal to possess or
transfer this dangerous ammunition. Congress should finish the job of
protecting law enforcement and the public by banning the possession of armorpiercing ammunition by, and its transfer to, anyone other than the military and law enforcement.

For the children, let's ban WWII era 30 cal ball ammo because (even though it was built for penetrating aircraft skin and invented decades before the advent of modern body armor) as it represents a clear and present threat to the children's well being.

(As far as the handgun ammo.. has a cop EVER been shot with armor piercing handgun ammo? I mean.. ever?)

Ever?

And since 223, 308, 270 Winchester, 243 Winchester, and every other center-fire cartridge will READILY penetrate soft body armor, are those going to get banned? I could see the uneducated congressmen passing something to that effect.

o Call for Congress to pass new gun trafficking laws, which will impose
serious penalties on those who help get guns into the hands of criminals.

For the children, pave the way to prosecuting gun owners who have safes stolen, cars broken in to, or who sell to a person (despite the universal background check) who 10 years later commits a felony with that firearm as an accessory.



* Helping schools address pervasive violence: Twenty-two percent of 14 to 17 year olds have witnessed a shooting in their lifetime.

Where do they come up with crap like this? I bet 22% of our SOLDIERS haven't witnessed a shooting. Hell, the vast majority go their full careers without ever seeing a round shot in anger, let alone it going through a human being.

* make sure doctors know they can report credible threats of violence by their patients
* A trained professional who concludes that a patient poses a serious threat to himself or others has a duty to report it.

"Hey Jimmy, how you doing. Well, you look nice and healthy. Let me ask you, do your parents have guns?" (THEY ASK THIS NOW). "Well, where are those guns kept? Do you ever feel threatened by them? Does your daddy drink beer or yell at mommy?"


* Make sure dangerous people are prohibited from having guns: The background check system is designed to keep guns out of the hands of those forbidden by law to have them. But we need to make sure our laws are effective at identifying the dangerous or untrustworthy individuals that should not have access to guns.

So... Who decides if you are "untrustworthy"?

And on.. and on.

They're opening the door for a lot of stuff here, which could be abused.

I'm sure the government would NEVER abuse stuff like this.

I mean, they're only after the guns which are capable of giving citizens parity with the average infantry soldier. More people are killed with shotguns and MANY times more people are killed with handguns...

But those military style rifles, they're just so horrible they NEED to go.

Starting with the Antiques.

 

[gc70]

Several news reports today reflect an interesting dynamic that is developing.

Obama has signed his EOs and says the rest is up to Congress.

Several members of the House have said this is Biden's baby and, since Biden is President of the Senate, the House will wait to see what the Senate does with legislative proposals.

Harry Reid stated over the weekend that he would not waste the Senate's time unless the House passed legislation.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

For two weeks after Sandy Hook, the other side were posting anti gun stuff then got bored and stopped for the most part. We are still at it as we have far more drive than they do.

 

[DCoke]

If the President cared one iota about the life of a single child like he says and that he would do everything he could to do so, then he should IMMEDIATELY un-fund Planned Parenthood. Abortion kills more children in a day than all the mass shootings by nutjobs. He is a hypocrite of the most extreme and our guns and 2nd Amendment rights are being infringed upon. Act and contact your State Senators and Representatives. Contact the Speaker of the House. Let every public official you can get ahold of know how you feel. Don't wait for others to lead the way. Do it yourselves and do it today.

 

[Guvnor]

Hate to say it, but the average American is a dummy with a short attention span more concerned with the next episode of American Idol than they are with the future of our country. I have a feeling that all these lemming anti's that are all fired up about gun bans will eventually lose interest. This is in start contrast to folks like us who understand we must keep constant vigilance, support our organizations, and make sure our voices are heard.

In my opinion i think we are in a much better position than we were a few weeks ago, but we are definitely not out of the woods yet. Keep up the letter writing, and we all NEED to get out there this Saturday, 1/19 and show support.