Obsolete calibers and cartridges.

Not obsolete but let's not forget the 16 gauge. As long as I can remember people have been saying it gone, its time is past, the 3" twenty will be the final nail in the coffin of the 16G. YET, year after year, decade after decade, from on century to the next it just keeps staggering on, taking game left right and center just like it always did.
 
.22 long. I didn’t even know it existed until a few years ago, and I’ve never seen any ammo for sale.
 
My take on obsolescence is that a cartridge is only truly obsolete when it is no longer available or reproducible from available components, or, finally, when nobody finds it interesting or useful. I have rifles and load for these 'obsolete' rounds, (among others) both of which are still useful and interesting - at least to me. The .22-3000 G&H (also known as the R2 Lovell) is chambered in a custom Krag, maker unknown, while the .276 is also in a custom rifle on a 1917 action by Hammer and Gipson of Chicago. I have good supplies of original brass for both cartridges, and alternative brass which can be formed for them (.25-20 Single Shot and 6.5x54mm MS, respectively).


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PRD1 - mhb - MIke
 
I've got a few firearms in calibers that are generally considered obsolete, although I can still find new-manufactured ammo fairly easily...

7.65x53 Argentine. This was basically the first smokeless cartridge made for Mauser designs, I think the Belgians and maybe Turks also used it initially? But I think before WW2 it was basically just Argentina using it. It has an interesting context relevant in this country, because the small ring Argentine rifles were made before 1898, and thus fall under "antique" description, and in most parts of the country bypass the need of a FFL to transfer. And yet, you get a bolt-action rifle with a 5 rd magazine, in a caliber roughly equal to any other .30 cal rifle. Mauser did make safety improvements (re gassing issues) in later designs, but I've never come across any internet tales detailing serious disasters with them. People still shoot them, and PPU makes runs of ammo.

9x23 Largo. This is a subset of 9mm pistol ammo that the Spanish (and I think Austrians with their Steyrs) pursued, and Spain stuck with when most of the world settled on 9x19. I have bought legit Largo made by Steinel, and 9 Steyr is made in runs by Fiocchi (I have some). This is comparable to 9mm Luger in ballistics, and the Star pistols I own also can use barrels that run 9mm Luger.

7.62 x 25 Tokarev. Almost completely removed from arsenals, but was the Russian pistol and submachine gun caliber of WW2, and for maybe a decade afterwards. Again, I have a pistol with that, that also has a barrel to run 9mm Luger.

9x18 Makarov, arguably obsolete, although I think still in use some places in official manner. Some pretty nice smaller pistols, in roughly equivalent to .380acp purpose. Can find a lot of that being made and sold.

The 7.65 Argentine gives you a good solid rifle cartridge for a rifle you can have totally under the radar. The Largo and Tokarev ammo can replace 9mm for usage, and was available during the panic when 9mm was sold out. The Mak replaces .380, and is cheaper per rd.
 
7.65 Argentine was offered by Winchester in Models 54 and 70 but rare, rare, rare.

9mm Largo is 9mm Bergman Bayard (Danish) when used in Spain.
9mm Steyr is not the same thing although a lot of people consider them interoperable.

7.62 Tokarev is pretty much 7.63 Mauser, some say overloaded and not safe in C96.

9mm Makarov should be listed 9.2mm firing a .364" bullet.
 
I have an old 1891 Argentine Mauser in 7.65x53. Hornady loads small batches every once in awhile. I have several boxes for mine. Probably buy dies when I empty all that.
 
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FWIW I shot an 1870/87 Italian "Vetterli-Vitaly" last Winter in our SAT morning milsurp shoots, where the newest rifle that can be used is the venerable M1-A. I used loads of 2400 in that big ol' 10.4x47R huge rimmed case (that started its life out as a black powdah cartridge) under sized-smaller to 0.427" (originally the BP bullet was 'heeled') 44 Mag bullets due to case design and the tight chamber. With its long barrel and sight radius, I usually placed 1st or 2nd with it ... MUCH to the chagrin of those shooting bolt actions or M1s and its kin!
 
To me obsolete cartridges are ones that don’t have guns other than custom ones chambered for them anymore, and rounds are no longer produced (or extremely limited in numbers) not allowing their owners the ability to find them without having to become The Old Western Scrounger. (Remember them?)

Most of the obscure ones you all listed meet my simple definition of obsolete. Which is too bad for many of them, as many are good rounds that just faded off.

There are lots more bordering on obsolescence, with a few that I own (.257 Roberts, .35 Remington, 16 ga., .41 Magnum, etc.) that are still somehow hanging on. Kinda fun shooting something not in “ a chassis”, PRC, Creedmoor, etc. sometimes. :)

Stay safe.
 
I do agree with you about large bore rimfire cartridges being obsolete.
However the rimfire priming compound is currently available, so that is not the problem. It is obtaining the cases.
Finding original rimfire brass that is still in shooting shape might be tough.
JT

Tough but not quite impossible.
These ctgs work ok in single shot firearms best.


https://gunnewsdaily.com/rimfire-vs-centerfire/

https://www.m14forum.com/threads/32-long-rimfire.510554/

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2021/04/12/17-5mm-danish-snider-largest-rimfire/amp/

https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index...Brass+Rimfire+Case+-+.56+RF+(.520+Round+Ball)

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/fabricating-large-bore-rimfire-cartridge-cases.480052/



 

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Ya, those darn Swedes. They still use 6.5x55 like they have for the last 100 years, because they don't know any better, and the reindeer they shoot with them still fall over dead because they don't know any better either...lol.

I want a 6.5x55...it's been on my want list for a long time. It ain't going no where!

Stumbled on one a while back.

Classy cartridge, nice rifle.

Couldn't be happier.

And the term should be "antiquated," not obsolete.

They do everything they always did, be it 6.5x55mm or .30 M2 ball.
 
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7.62 Tokarev is pretty much 7.63 Mauser, some say overloaded and not safe in C96.
And some say wrong. This is a common misconception that has been parroted by so many gun writers and others that it is widely accepted as truth. The 7.62X25 is loaded to around 35,000 PSI. Commercial 7.63 Mauser is loaded to 33,000 PSI, in deference to a lot of old C-96s with worn out springs. (That shouldn't be fired in the first place.) But C-96s were chambered in 9X19 which is loaded as hot as the Tokarev round. The design is more than strong enough to handle the pressure. A few years back, someone posted the experience of firing 9X19 rounds in a 7.63 C-96. :what: A 9X19 round will chamber in a 7.63 C-96 quite nicely. The guy stopped shooting after three rounds because the gun seemed to be kicking harder than normal. After discovering his mistake he found the gun to be undamaged!! He found one of the bullets, which had been squeezed down to .308" and was nearly 3/4 of an inch long. I can think of no better way to showcase the strength of a C-96 in good condition.
9mm Steyr is not the same thing although a lot of people consider them interoperable.
The Steyer round is very close to the Largo. Both have the same case length and rim diameter. They are in the same class power wise, but the Steyer case has a very slight taper. The largo is a straight walled case. Because of this the Steyer round will usually run through a Largo pistol with no issues, but it doesn't always work the other way around. The straight walled Largo won't always chamber in the Steyer pistol.
I have an old 1891 Argentine Mauser in 7.65x53. Hornady loads small batches every once in awhile. I have several boxes for mine. Probably buy dies when I empty all that.
You should buy dies now! Making 7.65 cases out of 06 brass is simple and easy. I've done it for years.
 
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The oddest caliber ammo I have is .32-20 and I've only been able to find it one place and only in LRN. And that was several years ago ! I've actually "retired" that revolver as I don't wish to diminish its value. The low power of these loads compared to other straight wall cartridges lessens their usefulness.
 
Odd that no one has mentioned 9mm Browning Long.

That's because 9x20mmSR (aka 9mm Browning Long) is still readily available. Check out GunBroker, you can get all you want, and the prices are not as high as I would expect. Vintages range from WWII to the 1980's, to now, because PPU is loading it, or at least they made a good sized batch in the last few years. I bought some of that because, like Jim Watson, I like the cartridge, and I have half-a-dozen guns chambered for it.

SO many countries should have adopted 9mm BL for their armies instead of stuff like 9mm Glisenti, 8mm Nambu, 8mm Roth-Steyr, or 7.65mm Long.
 
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The oddest caliber ammo I have is .32-20 and I've only been able to find it one place and only in LRN. And that was several years ago ! I've actually "retired" that revolver as I don't wish to diminish its value. The low power of these loads compared to other straight wall cartridges lessens their usefulness.


Starline brass makes 32-20 , not to expensive . And most bullet casters make a variety of bullets that will work with it . A set of Lee dies and your set for life!
 
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