Odd Signs at a Gun Show

[Monac]

Not if you pay a fee to enter. It might be public property but it's a private event. Just like you can't take professional photography/videography cameras into concerts at publicly owned venues.

I can see the sign about residents for IL serving two purposes: 1) limit liability for being sued by the state of IL for selling firearms to IL residents, and 2) eliminate time wasted serving a potential customer that you're not going to sell to.

I agree with your points about photography completely, and I have no objection to whatever policy the event-holder or even the site-owner makes. A table holder claiming that their policy was backed up by Federal law was surprising to me, though.

But the state of Illinois can sue somebody for selling a gun to an Illinois resident? And if, as an FFL you want to let people know when you cannot sell to them, you would not just say "Nobody from Illinois", you say "Nobody except residents of the state we are in right now or FFLs or CRFLs". I did not get why Illinois was being singled out, unless things are even weirder there than in New Jersey or California. Maybe they are.

 

[Monac]

I've seen little at a gun show that would keep me from going back. Several years ago, there was a negligent discharge of a shotgun that a private owner was trying to sell; ever since then, there's a cop at the door to make sure nobody is carrying (including licensed concealed/open carry) a loaded gun within the confines of the building where the show is.

A gun show has a "No Firearms Allowed (on your person, anyway)" policy?! Wow, that is really a lot to wrap my head around. I can't think of anything else coherent to say.

 

[CapnMac]

Hmm. It's not illegal to film in public and i would say a gun show at a county building is public.

@Shawn Dodson neatly summed that up, above.
A restaurant "open to the public" can also restrict photography, too. Typically by 'right' to refuse service.

Now, as to the "federal law" sign--it's likely just hot air. Being charitable, a person could misread the Federal rules on wiretapping & recording "without permission" to make such a case. Mind, they'd have to conveniently ignore the part about "for commercial purposes" in the Federal Regs, too.

Now, an obstinate person, unconcerned about resembling the exit end of livestock, could have just proclaimed themselves a "Sovereign Citizen" and not bound by pesky signs . . .

A gun show has a "No Firearms Allowed (on your person, anyway"?!

That's probably about not having loaded firearms within the facility, which may violate the promoter's or the venue's insurance policy(ies). We had a long (near pointless) thread on disarming CHL at shows a couple of weeks ago.

 

[John_R]

 

[Terry G]

You don't need an ID to buy a used gun in Wisconsin as far as I know. I have bought quite a few used guns with no more that cash and a handshake. If your from Illinois you can't buy a new gun at all. My Friend from Illinois was shocked that he could walk into the local ACE hardware and just buy ammunition No one I know of has ever been asked for an ID for ammunition unless they looked about 12.

 

[Monac]

@Shawn Dodson That's probably about not having loaded firearms within the facility, which may violate the promoter's or the venue's insurance policy(ies). We had a long (near pointless) thread on disarming CHL at shows a couple of weeks ago.

Thanks, CapnMac! That is why I ask questions here; other people know things that would never occur to me. I am glad to know there is a reason that makes some kind of sense. I think I will look up that thread you mentioned.

Oh, and given what I have learned in this thread, I think you are quite correct about the "No photography - Federal Law" claim. And probably the "No Hoosiers" one too. Some people think the law is whatever they think it ought to be. God save me from having to deal with a sovereign citizen. "The flag in the courtroom had gold fringe, so its ruling does not apply to me!"

 

[Monac]

You don't need an ID to buy a used gun in Wisconsin as far as I know. I have bought quite a few used guns with no more that cash and a handshake. If your from Illinois you can't buy a new gun at all. My Friend from Illinois was shocked that he could walk into the local ACE hardware and just buy ammunition No one I know of has ever been asked for an ID for ammunition unless they looked about 12.

Sure, you can do it without an ID. I have seen it done too. My point is that it is NOT a good idea to do so, for the seller's own sake if for no other reason.

I think the "ID to buy ammo" thing was a Federal law that has been gone for 25 years or more because it turned out to be utterly useless. They still do that in Illinois? I bet it is still useless.

 

[Monac]

View attachment 1074244

If I was a certain kind of person, I would print out a sign like that and slip it onto the table of the seller that I started this thread about, John_R. Thanks for a good laugh!

 

[John_R]

If I was a certain kind of person, I would print out a sign like that and slip it onto the table of the seller that I started this thread about, John_R. Thanks for a good laugh!

Better yet, put it on the next table over and watch his sales go up.

 

[Speedo66]

Back in the early 90’s I worked for a public agency. I wore a tee shirt to a gun show in Orange County, CA that was given to me at work. It was red and had my agency logo on it.

My face was partially obscured but everyone at work that saw the clip knew it was me.

Any repercussions at work? I can't think of a reason why, but with public agencies you never know.

 

[CapnMac]

I think the "ID to buy ammo" thing was a Federal law that has been gone for 25 years or more

ID and recording in a Bound Book was part of GCA 68; it was ended by FOPA 86, so, 36 years' ago. (By '86 many States had other requirements, anyways)

Now, if the test were "turned out to be utterly useless," we'd have like 7, maybe 8, "gun laws" not >20K.

The dropping the Bound Book ammo reporting was touted as a great success in getting FOPA enacted (despite the trainwreck of Hughes). But, it was the first bit of legislation to go "our way" in near two decades.

 

[Pat Riot]

Any repercussions at work? I can't think of a reason why, but with public agencies you never know.

Well, kind of. My boss told me that I shouldn’t wear those shirts any where that might bring bad light to our agency. I told him if he didn’t want us wearing those shirts, that were supposed to be a “thank you” for hard work that they shouldn’t give them to us. The next day I brought the 2 tee shirts back to work and used them as rags. I prominently displayed them on the side of my tool box to air out daily. One day they disappeared.

 

[BigBL87]

I think the "ID to buy ammo" thing was a Federal law that has been gone for 25 years or more because it turned out to be utterly useless. They still do that in Illinois? I bet it is still useless.

Ya, when buying ammo you have to present your FOID or CCL (used to have to be your FOID by the letter of the law, but they tweaked it to be your FOID or CCL because if you have a CCL you by definition have a FOID).

They just passed a law recently where, if I remember correctly, they actually have to call the state police and verify your FOID is valid or run an online check to do the same. I can't remember when it goes into effect, but I think a court challenge is upcoming on it. Part of the reason I've eyeballed getting into reloading/handloading lately.

 

[bangswitch]

A gun show has a "No Firearms Allowed (on your person, anyway)" policy?! Wow, that is really a lot to wrap my head around. I can't think of anything else coherent to say.

That's not what I said. Attendees can bring firearms to sell, but they have to be checked at the door to ensure they are not loaded. Concealed/open carry weapons must have the magazines out or emptied and ammunition left in the car. So, no LOADED guns may be carried while inside the facility holding the show.

 

[Monac]

That's not what I said. Attendees can bring firearms to sell, but they have to be checked at the door to ensure they are not loaded. Concealed/open carry weapons must have the magazines out or emptied and ammunition left in the car. So, no LOADED guns may be carried while inside the facility holding the show.

That seems like a legalistic distinction, and almost a distinction without a difference. I may be being argumentative here, but if you have to empty your gun, in what sense are you armed with a gun? I mean, I guess you can club somebody with it, but in what sense are you carrying a firearm?

It just seemed odd that a gun show, of all places, would keep people from people from exercising their right to carry, openly or concealed, but CapnMac gave a good reason for that. I am not arguing with their legal right to do it, nor their reason to, it's just that the "optics" are peculiar.

 

[bangswitch]

That seems like a legalistic distinction, and almost a distinction without a difference. I may be being argumentative here, but if you have to empty your gun, in what sense are you armed with a gun? I mean, I guess you can club somebody with it, but in what sense are you carrying a firearm?

It just seemed odd that a gun show, of all places, would keep people from people from exercising their right to carry, openly or concealed, but CapnMac gave a good reason for that. I am not arguing with their legal right to do it, nor their reason to, it's just that the "optics" are peculiar.

If everyone there is disarmed, why would you need to be armed? I could agree, it's a suspension of your 2A rights, but so is the limitations to carrying in other venues. This is more for safety reasons, because the shotgun incident I related is far from the only time there has been a negligent discharge at that gun show. If people are unable to safely carry, and LEAVE their CC in the holster when there is no reason to draw it, then maybe they should be disarmed. I have no problems personally, with unloading my CC at a gun show; actually, I don't carry when I go, knowing I have to unload it.

 

[Alte Schule]

Several years ago I attended a small gun show held at a VFW about an hours drive away. One of the vendors, an elderly gent and his wife, had a sign that read " Every Firearm On This Table Is Sold With A Smile, A Thank You And A Handshake". He wasn't kidding. I bought a nickel Model 10 with a 5 inch pencil barrel and got all three. I love Texas!

 

[Monac]

If everyone there is disarmed, why would you need to be armed? I could agree, it's a suspension of your 2A rights, but so is the limitations to carrying in other venues. This is more for safety reasons, because the shotgun incident I related is far from the only time there has been a negligent discharge at that gun show. If people are unable to safely carry, and LEAVE their CC in the holster when there is no reason to draw it, then maybe they should be disarmed. I have no problems personally, with unloading my CC at a gun show; actually, I don't carry when I go, knowing I have to unload it.

This is not really a line of reasoning I expected to see here, or at a gun show. I am not saying you are wrong. I am not even saying I don't agree with you. It's just unexpected. Not bad, just surprising.

I also hope it does not set off some serious thread drift.

 

[Monac]

Several years ago I attended a small gun show held at a VFW about an hours drive away. One of the vendors, an elderly gent and his wife, had a sign that read " Every Firearm On This Table Is Sold With A Smile, A Thank You And A Handshake". He wasn't kidding. I bought a nickel Model 10 with a 5 inch pencil barrel and got all three. I love Texas!

You can find real gentlemen anywhere you go. They are one of the things that can make going to a gun show or similar gathering a real pleasure.

 

[Shanvanvocht]

They still do that in Illinois? I bet it is still useless.

Not only Illinois, but also New Jersey and, I believe, California. In NJ it's only for handgun ammo, but the ID must be a Firearms Purchaser ID or a Pistol Purchase Permit (you could, legally, use a CHL, but try to get one, lol)

 

[SwampWolf]

In a couple of days, I'm scheduled to turn 79 years old. I've always enjoyed attending gun shows and always will. Yeah, some are better than others, some much better, but all of them beat mowing grass on a weekend. Just keep reins on your expectations, don't take things so seriously, have a positive attitude and you might have a good time too.

 

[.308 Norma]

In a couple of days, I'm scheduled to turn 79 years old. I've always enjoyed attending gun shows and always will. Yeah, some are better than others, some much better, but all of them beat mowing grass on a weekend. Just keep reins on your expectations, don't take things so seriously, have a positive attitude and you might have a good time too.

Happy birthday! You're just 5 years and a few days ahead of me.
I enjoy going to gun shows too. And I think it beats mowing the lawn anytime - not just on weekends.

 

[Sniper66]

For whatever reason(s) it is common to discourage photography of any kind at gun shows. Hard to enforce with everyone carrying a camera these days, but in general attendees respect that prohibition. It is also not uncommon for many gun stores to refuse to sell guns to out of state residents. I visited a very popular, well-stocked gun store in Florida and they refused to sell me a gun. I'm from Kansas. Even though it is quite legal for me to buy a long gun. They apologized but said they have received so much grief from the states of New Jersey and New York about their residents coming to Florida to buy guns. I know nothing about these laws, but the gun store said it was easier to just refuse to sell to all out-of-staters. That is a big decision since Florida has a very high non-resident population.

 

[SterlingBullet]

Under federal law, the US Government is prohibited from maintaining a list of gun owners or list records of who owns a specific gun. Many states also have similar laws; my home State of Florida does, although statutes allow the buyer and seller to maintain a bill of sale with buyer/seller and gun info.

Photography or videotaping of individuals purchasing firearms could possibly be interpreted as assembling a list of guns owners, hence the dealer may have posted such a sign to discourage an invasion of privacy and violation of anonymity the laws provide for gun owners.

 

[SterlingBullet]

For whatever reason(s) it is common to discourage photography of any kind at gun shows. Hard to enforce with everyone carrying a camera these days, but in general attendees respect that prohibition. It is also not uncommon for many gun stores to refuse to sell guns to out of state residents. I visited a very popular, well-stocked gun store in Florida and they refused to sell me a gun. I'm from Kansas. Even though it is quite legal for me to buy a long gun. They apologized but said they have received so much grief from the states of New Jersey and New York about their residents coming to Florida to buy guns. I know nothing about these laws, but the gun store said it was easier to just refuse to sell to all out-of-staters. That is a big decision since Florida has a very high non-resident population.

A FFL in Florida may not transfer a firearm into the possession of an out-of-state resident. An out-of-state resident may purchase a firearm to be shipped to an FFL in their home state for FFL transfer according to their home states laws on gun possession, similar to an online sale from Bud’s or Cabellas. Many FFLs will not ship firearms to New York, New Jersey, California or other blue states because of the onerous extra regulatory hurdles to complete the transfers.