Oh my what a lot of fouling.

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CoalCrackerAl

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I made the mistake of showing my buddy my bore cam. And how i got my mosin bore clean. Well we looked into his bore. It was real bad. So he asked me to try and get it like i got mine. Im starting to see bare metal finally. It has a lot of copper fouling and carbon. Using bore tech eliminator to attack the copper. And hoppes elite to work at the carbon. Im using carbon fiber cleaning rods. And a steel patch holder and nylon brushes. So no false results. Here is my patch collection so far.
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I warned him the 1st shots may be off. Until he gets it fouled some. Mine it took about 15 shots. But it no longer has years of fouling. And shoots better before than when i deep cleaned mine.
 
Chemical cleaners can only remove so much, and then an abrasive is required. I recommend JB Bore paste, and to use it sparingly.

I do believe there is obsessive compulsive behavior around barrel cleaning. Based on my experience, leading causes inaccuracy, heavy jacket fouling similarly. But between perfectly clean and sewer pipe, it is hard to conclusively prove that cleanliness is next to godliness. I know my smallbore rifle does not change zero or accuracy after 320 shots, at least within my prone hold. I clean the barrel out after two days of matches, primarily to ensure the chamber is clean. I know some who say "I clean the barrel when it tells me to do so".

Highpower rifle barrels are different, for one, the cartridges erode the barrel throat to a measurable extent. And, jacket fouling in the throat does affect accuracy and if that happens on a low mileage barrel, accuracy can be restored with JB bore paste. But, this is something that is really only of consequence in match barrels with match ammunition. Military barrels are not made with the expectation of target accuracy. Four MOA is pretty good for a military rifle, my WASR AK47 will group maybe eight inches at 100 yards with ball ammunition. Probably 80 million AK's made, not a lot of complaints about it not being a satisfactory battle rifle. Ball ammunition, Swedish and Swiss service ammunition is almost match grade, but the rest, if it groups within 4 MOA, it is acceptable for military service.

It would be interesting to see if the newly cleaned Mosin Nagants actually shoot ten shot groups (not three) any differently after cleaning. I do predict a shift in point of impact as the barrel fouls back. That is what I experienced with high mileage match barrels after a deep cleaning. It would take two to three shots before the group was stable. After that, the barrel shot predictably. It was at that time, I more or less gave up deep cleaning on those barrels. Just a brushing and GI bore cleaner to remove rust causing fouling. No copper remover. I just monitored the throat wear and changed the barrel when it gauged a four, or if it stopped clustering at long range. I am sure the tooling marks in the barrel had copper fouling, but I could not see it with my eyeball.

Bore scopes primarily reinforce obsessive compulsive behaviors.
 
Before i deep cleaned mine. It would only group well with tula ammo. I could not find a hand load that would group at all. The POI was all over the place with in an 8 inch area at 50 yards. The tula it would group about 2 inches. Now that it shoots good with my loads. I ordered a set of RCBS dies. To replace my Lee ones. I been thinking about the JB bore paste too.
 
Before i deep cleaned mine. It would only group well with tula ammo. I could not find a hand load that would group at all. The POI was all over the place with in an 8 inch area at 50 yards. The tula it would group about 2 inches. Now that it shoots good with my loads. I ordered a set of RCBS dies. To replace my Lee ones. I been thinking about the JB bore paste too.

Check the diameter of the bullet, and if possible, slug the barrel. I have found barrel diameters all over the place with Russian Nagants. Same with Lee Enfields. I believe war time barrels, they started with a large broach and let it wear down before replacing. Attitudes in war time are significantly different than in peacetime. Perfection is not wanted, quantity is. I think this is an interesting quote, made during WW2


2020 Sept Military History Magazine

Close Enough, -the proximity fuze was the best kept Billion dollar Allied Secret of World War II

Program Manager Merle Tuve directives, posted on John Hopkins APL Maryland Laboratory walls:

I don’t want any damn fool in this laboratory to save money. I only want him save time.
Shoot at an 80 percent job; we can’t afford perfection
Don’t try for an “A”; in a war “D” is necessary and enough, but an “F” is fatal
The best job in the world is a total failure if it is too late


Our moral responsibility goes all the way to the final battle use of this unit; its failure there is our failure, regardless of who is technically responsible for the causes of failure. It is our job to achieve the end result
 
Mine slugged at .301-.311. I'll slug his then. I didn't know they were oval then. The tula bullets are .311 and so are the ones i reload with. I have some PPU they are .310. I haven't shot them since i did my deep clean,
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I was thinking about the JB paste. I have some Mothers polish on hand. I put some one a mop and worked it back and forth in the bore. It was full of black gunk. I followed with patches after. 6 more patches came out full of gunk. 4 more it took until i got a clean patch.
 
RCBS i can load with 2 dies vs 3 dies. Gives me more space in my 8 hole turret. :D

I resized some with the new dies. Much smoother. The RCBS dies a machined better. Not nearly as rough as the Lee. The only Lee dies for rifle im holding onto. Is my .223 dies. They are finished nice.
 
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