OK, I understand 6.5 Creedmore is ballistically superior to .308 Win, but....

[RussellC]

A .223 bolt gun wouldn't do for a 6.5 either. 6.5 has the same rim diameter as .308. You're right that you'd have to change the bolt and barrel with a .223.
"...308 being anything like I remember .30-06..." You comparing semi-auto or bolt actions? Makes a difference. Same felt recoil, as in none, out of a semi. About 2 ft-lbs. more out of like weight rifles and with like bullet weights out of a bolt action.
"...I want that 6.5..." "I want one" is reason enough. The brand of receiver really doesn't make much difference other than relative ease of buying one. And to some extent the ease of finding a barrel that'll fit a particular brand of action without a lot of fuss.
Knew a guy, years ago, who bought a BNIB Win M70 just for the action. I'd be thinking used, short action, hunting rifle just for the receiver and selling off the parts of it you don't want(selling the scope and stock, for example, will defer some of the build costs. Got the nice new walnut stock from the guy for $15, as I recall. Long time ago.). Isn't really the right time of year for that though. Deer rifles come cheaper right after deer season and it's too early for varmint rifles.
The "Wal-Mart test' is more about hunting cartridges, but still applies. Good name for it too. Mind you, a quick look at Walmart.com shows Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor ammo, dies and even a 2a Armament Barrel.
"...6.5CM is a "flavor of the month"..." Yep. Lotta stuff like that.

They were bolt guns, not semi auto, thanks for the information, much appreciated.

 

[horsey300]

Of course a .223 gun would be minimal recoil, plenty for 300 yards, and I already have lots of bullets and brass. Once proficient, then to the 6.5 creedmoor. For some reason I want that 6.5....

Russellc

I have a slightly different perspective to offer, though I find no fault with the .223 for your given application....
If you were to buy a savage chambered in .22-250, .243, .260, 6.5 cm, 7-08, or .308, you could swap any barrel for them without worrying about bolt head etc. The .22-250 will reach to 500 easier than the .223 and a savage prefit from various manufacturers can be had in a faster twist to take advantage of the longer pills. 500 yds is not a hard goal with a little practice and any of these cartridges will produce little enough recoil to allow for plenty of practice. The .22-250 recoil is VERY tolerable, as is a light load .243, the 6.5 twins can both be utilized with light loads, and of course recoil pads, brakes, and mercury can all water the recoil down further. The difference between any of these, if loaded properly, at 500 yds is really splitting hairs.
Alternatively, the t/c dimension offers VERY easy swapping from cartridge class to cartridge class if you're so inclined. The last I checked they did not support the 6.5 cartridges but did have all the others I listed.

 

[RussellC]

If you like the Savages, these are a pretty nice turnkey rifle:

http://grabagun.com/savage-89.html

The few i've seen a few at our local range were shooters. Still uses the barrel nut system, so barrel changes are a snap compared to anything that doesn't use a barrel nut, if that matters to you. Also, the Bergara B-14 HMRs have been getting great reviews. The Ruger Precision is also a good option.

Yes, that is the one I had seen. Like your Statler Brothers signature...Counting flowers on the wall, yes I'm that old!

Russellc

 

[RussellC]

I have a slightly different perspective to offer, though I find no fault with the .223 for your given application....
If you were to buy a savage chambered in .22-250, .243, .260, 6.5 cm, 7-08, or .308, you could swap any barrel for them without worrying about bolt head etc. The .22-250 will reach to 500 easier than the .223 and a savage prefit from various manufacturers can be had in a faster twist to take advantage of the longer pills. 500 yds is not a hard goal with a little practice and any of these cartridges will produce little enough recoil to allow for plenty of practice. The .22-250 recoil is VERY tolerable, as is a light load .243, the 6.5 twins can both be utilized with light loads, and of course recoil pads, brakes, and mercury can all water the recoil down further. The difference between any of these, if loaded properly, at 500 yds is really splitting hairs.
Alternatively, the t/c dimension offers VERY easy swapping from cartridge class to cartridge class if you're so inclined. The last I checked they did not support the 6.5 cartridges but did have all the others I listed.

If you mean Savage not supporting 6.5 CM, I did find this conversion: dont know anything about this, seems a little inexpensive, but who knows?

http://www.eabco.net/EABCO-Custom-Savage-Accuracy-Barrels_p_13410.html

Russellc

 

[RussellC]

Whoops, I misunderstand, obviously they do support 6.5 CM:

http://grabagun.com/savage-89.html

Sorry,

Russellc

 

[horsey300]

If you mean Savage not supporting 6.5 CM, I did find this conversion: dont know anything about this, seems a little inexpensive, but who knows?

http://www.eabco.net/EABCO-Custom-Savage-Accuracy-Barrels_p_13410.html

Russellc

Nonono, you can get TONS of aftermarket (and factory) barrels for a savage prefit configuration in just about any chambering you want. Criterion offers the .260 but not the cm, shilen offers the cm as do others.
The t/c dimension is somewhat of a newer development and has less aftermarket support but offers a healthy variety as is, just not in 6.5 iirc.... just checked, they DO offer the 6.5 cm
http://www.tcarms.com/firearms/bolt-action-rifles/dimension/components

 

[horsey300]

Whoops, I misunderstand, obviously they do support 6.5 CM:

http://grabagun.com/savage-89.html

Sorry,

Russellc

Yup between savage and the dimension, you can swap chamberings within each one from say .22-250 to 6.5 to .308 as often as you want. You can also barrel nut a rem and make a remage but either of these two would suffice nicely.

 

[Gtscotty]

Criterion offers 6.5 CM Savage barrels, along with pretty much any other 6.5 or 6mm you might want.

http://criterionbarrels.com/savage-remage-prefit

 

[horsey300]

Criterion offers 6.5 CM Savage barrels, along with pretty much any other 6.5 or 6mm you might want.

http://criterionbarrels.com/savage-remage-prefit

Thanks I couldn't find it via another source. Reckon they may need to update their list.

 

[cdb1]

I don't believe the 6.5 Creedmoor is a flavor of the month. It is here to stay.

 

[RussellC]

Thanks a great deal, everyone, I've learned a bunch here today. Looks like the Savage platform is well supported, and thete always seems to be a healthy respect for them. Keeping in mind tons of quality barrels, is there a better way to start than this? SAVAGE MODEL 10 STEALTH BLACK 6.5 CREEDMOOR 24 INCH 10RD THREADED BARREL SCOPE RAIL MONOLITHIC CHASSIS, like the link above to "grab a gun"?

Russellc

 

[RussellC]

I have no problem buying parts and assembling them, or barreled actions and separate chassis, etc. The only barreled actions I am familiar with are Howa, and I think I have seen Tikka, but I dont know if they have a barrel nut removal system like used in the Savage.

Russellc

 

[LoonWulf]

Shooting both, my experience is that factory ammo cost for good target loads are similar with a slight advantage to .308 if you catch FGMM or something similar on sale. .264 match bullets are almost always cheaper than equivalent .308 bullets, especially when you go to the heavier .308 bullets.

Again considering the initial range of expected use real premium ammo isnt necessary. Mid shelf target loads are usually enough. Which is really all i can get so thats what i base my comparisons on.

Factory ammo here is about 2-5 bucks more expensive for the same ammo for each, most of it being hornady.

Cases are more expensive than .308 but not significantly, bullets are generally pretty close (this is considering 120-140 and 155-180 from same manufacturer).

Primers and powder are basically the same

End of the day your withing a few bucks either way depending on what you catch on sale, what your gun happens to like, and how much precision your really looking for. It will USUALLY be slightly cheaper for the .308 but not always.

 

[RussellC]

Looks like when people use Tikka actions, they buy a cheap T3 and scrape the rest. Sounds expensive, but when basic T3's are in the 6 hundreds, and some say these actions are the equivalent of 1500 dollar actions? I guess that's one way to do it.

Russellc

 

[LoonWulf]

I have no problem buying parts and assembling them, or barreled actions and separate chassis, etc. The only barreled actions I am familiar with are Howa, and I think I have seen Tikka, but I dont know if they have a barrel nut removal system like used in the Savage.

Russellc

Howas work pretty well also, my 6.5s actually a cheaper Howa.

 

[RussellC]

Well, I dont know how their barrels attach, but I havent (yet) seen seperate barrels for the Howas, or am I mistaken?

Russellc

 

[horsey300]

Thanks a great deal, everyone, I've learned a bunch here today. Looks like the Savage platform is well supported, and thete always seems to be a healthy respect for them. Keeping in mind tons of quality barrels, is there a better way to start than this? SAVAGE MODEL 10 STEALTH BLACK 6.5 CREEDMOOR 24 INCH 10RD THREADED BARREL SCOPE RAIL MONOLITHIC CHASSIS, like the link above to "grab a gun"?

Russellc

I think that depends more on YOU and your preferred style, for field and target purposes, I prefer varmint type stocks that allow me to shoot prone over various types of terrain. I believe you're already comfy with the ar platforms, so the linked model 10 might fit you just fine. I like a more traditional grip with raised (or adjustable) cheek piece with a heavier but not full bull barrel. You might indeed be right where you wanna be with this platform. In a savage, the 11 long range hunter appeals more to me, but for your purposes, the model 12 lineups, model 10 hs precision, and model 10 grs might also be worth looking at. I've only been able to shoulder a few of them, but if I knew I was going to be immobile while shooting, the heavy boys might be worth a look too. But it's your money, and you're the one shooting, so if that stealth model really trips your trigger, then go for it! (It's not like you can't modify it later anyway)

 

[RussellC]

Well, modify it later is sort of what I had in mind. The stock on this thing looks like six position carbine stock. The Ruger precision rifle's stock better suits me. Of course its a more expensive gun which leads me to the Bugarra and others, which leads me to thinking about building from parts, etc. A guys got to pick his choices and pays his money at some point!

Thanks everyone for ALL of the ideas. I guess its time to start looking around, maybe I will bump into a bargain on a gun, Savage or otherwise, that can be stripped to its action or something. Seperate actions for building seem to be very nice, but very expensive, many are the price of the entire Ruger precision rifle and others. My shooting purposes dont call for all that.
Russellc

 

[ATLDave]

There are "fad calibers" that get popular because of marketing or press coverage or whatever. And then there are "fad calibers" that are popular because they are objectively performing well/better in objectively-measured competitive environments. The latter may or may not ever pass the "Wal-Mart test," but something that is objectively better is not really a "fad."

 

[Gtscotty]

Cases are more expensive than .308 but not significantly, bullets are generally pretty close (this is considering 120-140 and 155-180 from same manufacturer).

Primers and powder are basically the same

End of the day your withing a few bucks either way depending on what you catch on sale, what your gun happens to like, and how much precision your really looking for. It will USUALLY be slightly cheaper for the .308 but not always.

Perhaps there are some odd forces at work in your local market, but in my experience loading both, unless you are using junk .308 bullets, 6.5 is pretty much always cheaper for me to load.

The imagined cost benefit for the .308 bullets in these discussions usually revolves around comparing .308 pull-downs, or non-target bullets to 6.5 target bullets. If you actually compare bullet prices for good target bullets (Bergers, Nosler CC's, SMK's, etc) between say 140gr 6.5 bullets and 175gr - 185gr .308 bullets at the same vendor, the 6.5s are virtually always cheaper, often by 10% or more. But that's not even really a fair comparison, because to match the ballistics of a 140gr 6.5 , you usually have to get into >200gr .308 bullets, which are even more expensive (and as a side note, also generate more recoil).

As for cases, Hornady, (which I use in both), are $38.99/50 at my local SW for either cartridge. .308 Lapua is cheaper than the new 6.5 CM Lapua brass, at least for now.

Powder is basically a wash, I use 1gr - 2.5gr less in my main 6.5 load than I do in my main .308 loads.

I really wish I could reload good .308 match loads for the same price as my 6.5 loads, but it just ain't so. The price difference isn't crushing, but it is there, and it doesn't favor the .308.

 

[RussellC]

I see Starline is now selling 6.5 CM brass. I would think the lapua is higher quality, but I have used Starline 9mm and .45 ACP brass and it is dandy for those pistol rounds.

Russellc

 

[LoonWulf]

Perhaps there are some odd forces at work in your local market, but in my experience loading both, unless you are using junk .308 bullets, 6.5 is pretty much always cheaper for me to load.

The imagined cost benefit for the .308 bullets in these discussions usually revolves around comparing .308 pull-downs, or non-target bullets to 6.5 target bullets. If you actually compare bullet prices for good target bullets (Bergers, Nosler CC's, SMK's, etc) between say 140gr 6.5 bullets and 175gr - 185gr .308 bullets at the same vendor, the 6.5s are virtually always cheaper, often by 10% or more. But that's not even really a fair comparison, because to match the ballistics of a 140gr 6.5 , you usually have to get into >200gr .308 bullets, which are even more expensive (and as a side note, also generate more recoil).

As for cases, Hornady, (which I use in both), are $38.99/50 at my local SW for either cartridge. .308 Lapua is cheaper than the new 6.5 CM Lapua brass, at least for now.

Powder is basically a wash, I use 1gr - 2.5gr less in my main 6.5 load than I do in my main .308 loads.

I really wish I could reload good .308 match loads for the same price as my 6.5 loads, but it just ain't so. The price difference isn't crushing, but it is there, and it doesn't favor the .308.

Not arguing as you are correct, location and availability drives cost, here in hawaii more so than elsewhere.

Here are the products im referencing, locally i can get these for about 5 bucks a box more than midway.

.308
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/4...r-308-diameter-168-grain-boat-tail-box-of-100

6.5 (was looking for amax but they dont seem to be available anymore, last few boxes i ordered were 30-32 i think)
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/6...m-264-diameter-123-grain-boat-tail-box-of-100

I didn't know starline offered any bottle neck rounds, well besides .458 socom, thats pretty cool i use alot in pistol cals.

Heres what i paid locally for a couple boxes the 208s are from a year or so ago, 143s from last month or the month before.

 

[RussellC]

Not arguing as you are correct, location and availability drives cost, here in hawaii more so than elsewhere.

Here are the products im referencing, locally i can get these for about 5 bucks a box more than midway.

.308
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/4...r-308-diameter-168-grain-boat-tail-box-of-100

6.5 (was looking for amax but they dont seem to be available anymore, last few boxes i ordered were 30-32 i think)
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/6...m-264-diameter-123-grain-boat-tail-box-of-100

I didn't know starline offered any bottle neck rounds, well besides .458 socom, thats pretty cool i use alot in pistol cals.

Heres what i paid locally for a couple boxes the 208s are from a year or so ago, 143s from last month or the month before.

Yup, they now have .308, 250 for 116.00, 500 for 199.00, 1000 for 376.00 available now, 6.5 creedmoor, 250 for 125.00, 500 for 235.00, and 1000 for 430.00 also available now. Last time I looked they were about to have 300 BO, and soon to have .223 as well.

Russellc

 

[LoonWulf]

Nice, i think ill order some of the 6.5s, while i traded out of the gun ive got, im sure ill be getting another....meantime i can use them to make .250ais

 

[RussellC]

Looks like those are "best sellers" they appear to have added.243 on 6/21, and .450 on 7/10. Oh, they do have .223 now, 300 BO now, 338 federal, 358 winchester, 444 marlin, 450 bushmaster, 30 carbine, 6.8 SPC, SR 6.5 CM to boot. I know a few are straight walled, and I didnt check availability on these, but they make 'em now I guess.

Russellc