Old Eyes + Red Dot Sight = No Good!

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NoBite

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Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this problem when using a red dot sight.

I have an astigmatism in both eyes. Not too uncommon, certainly. Been wearing glasses to correct this for nearly 30 years. As we age, our eyes change and so do the prescriptions for the glasses. Well, I have an UltraDot sight on my Ruger Mark II pistol. When I first put it on the Ruger, about 3 years ago, it made a world of difference! The thing became a tack driver for me. Just a blast to shoot and I couldn't get enough of it. Over the past year, though, things have changed.

I kind of got away from the Ruger as 1911-itis infected me. You know how that can happen, I'm sure. Upon picking up the Mark II the other day, I noticed that the once clear red dot is now a tiny cluster of three or four dots! Not at all the one, crisp dot it used to be. Not believing the problem could be anything else but mechanical, I sent the sight back to the dealer for repair. A month later, I received my sight back with some color photos showing the dot to be one, crisp tiny dot - - - the way it should be! And, a little notation telling me that some astigmatisms affect the way people can view red dot sights. In other words, the problem is in my eyes, not the sight and there ain't nothing that can be done about that!

So, I ask you folks for some feedback. Does this story measure up to your experiences? If you have astigmatisms, do you find using red dot sights to be frustrating in this manner?

<I can tell you that my wife, with good eyes, sees only one crisp dot when she looks through the sight.>

Just doesn't seem right that this be the case!
 
well,,,

i tend to see more of a dot with a flare than a crisp dot

i have adapted to it

i wonder if its possible to adapt in your case as well?

practice with it a while and see how it goes?

good luck

m
 
Not there myself yet (knock, knock)... But one of the guys that I regularly shoot with describes the exact phenomenon with most dot sights, but he found one that works for him. If I see him in the next couple of days I'll get the brand and model that he uses and let you know.
 
Old Eyes...

Pappy John - I would be much obliged to learn of the brand of red dot that works for your friend. Thanks for checking into that!

Rick Reno - Interesting article and contraptions. They make sense. I am wondering about the combination of the adjustable apeture and a red dot sight. No way to know except give it a try. For target shooting and other predictable shooting sports, this looks like an option. Fortunately, when shooting my 1911, I don't seem to have the same issues. In fact, with iron sights I do fairly well. The front sight is a bit fuzzy, but the target is a lot fuzzier! In that instance, I bet the adjustable apeture would be great. I don't seem to have an issue with a normal scope, just the red dot sight.

280plus - Well, what you suggest is exactly what I am trying to do right now. I see sort of an elongated series of dots. All are tightly connected and sort of stretch down. I am not sure whether point of aim should be the top of the mass of dots, the middle or the bottom! I guess when I figure that out, I could simply concentrate on that area and ignore the rest.

Thanks to you all for the considerate replies! ;)
 
You can verify the dot yourself. Take one of those cheap 8x or 10x binoculars that cost about 10 bucks, put it up against the sight, look through and focus. You'll see the dot and its shape very clearly.

The dot always looks like a short vertical line to me. I stick to iron sights now.

You might want to look into the UltraDot 4Dot sight which has an adjustable dot size. Maybe making the dot a little bigger will help.
 
That actually did work!

Graystar, why did that work? I'm amazed.

Well, I'm not sure what I am going to do. But, probably will not be getting a different UltraDot sight. Just don't want the aggravation (and expense) of going through that again. Actually, I am wondering if I should just sell the Mark II and UltraDot combination and simply get a .22 conversion kit for my 1911 for those times I want to shoot 22's. I don't know what I am going to do.

Thanks for the neat tip. Would have saved me a lot of time if I had posted here before sending the sight off!
 
old eyes

I've got both an Adco and Ultadot scopes, for me the Adco has a sharper dot. The adjustable iris works with dot scopes, same as it does with iron sights. I don't find the definition as sharp as with iron sights - but it does sharpen it up quite a bit. I've taken the dot scopes off my guns, I've found if I continue to make major changes every shooting season it gives me a good excuse for low scores.

If you've been shooting a lot of 1911, a conversion makes sense. Go with the Marvel http://www.marvelprecision.com/ it's a good one. Same grip/trigger. The iron sights on the Marvel are very good too.

Looking at that iris URL I posted, if I were going to do this again I'd try the $69 model. The suction cup is a good idea, but positioning it on my glasses is sometimes a hassle.
 
NoBite,

Maybe I missed it in the thread, but have you discussed this problem with your optometrist? Eyesight changes from time to time, obviously, though aging eyesight (presbyopia) normally has little to do with astigmatism.

It sounds like you just need an axial adjustment to the cylinder (the lens curve that corrects astigmatism) power in your eyeglass prescription. Take the dot sight with you when you visit your eye doc and peer through it with a "trial frame," a sort of temporary pair of glasses into which the doc can insert the lens powers you need. I'd leave the pistol at home, though, unless your doc is also a shooter.

New lenses in your glasses will probably cost less than a new dot sight, too.

Mike
 
I think you need to see an eye doctor. My normal glasses are trifocals. When I wear them to the range, I use the middle panel to focus on the rear sight or red dot sight. My computing and shooting glasses give me a clearer view with the upper panel. Whichever glasses I take, I always use a Merit peep sight attached to the lens to help my right eye focus. I've been wearing glasses for astigmatism from the age of three, and am now 54. A bad prescription can turn your life into @#$%^&! in P.D.Q. order.

Strange to say, the best eye specialist I ever found was at a Wal Mart in Mountain View, the People's Republic of California. I can't find the doctor anywhere. I'd gladly pay him two or three times his standard rate if I could just find him.
 
Thanks for the additional replies!

Standing Wolf - actually I did discuss this with my optometrist when I had my last prescription updated. He made me a pair of shooting glasses. But, I didn't think to take in the red dot. <That is a very good idea, CTgunteacher!> My glasses are also trifocals. Next time I will take the sight in with me.

Rick Reno - thanks for the information on Marvel conversion kits. I had not heard of them. In your opinion, how would they compare to Seiner or Kimber? My 1911 is a Kimber. A friend recently purchased a Seiner (or is it Steiner?) and has had good luck with it.
 
NoBite, unfortunately, its not the dot scope. This is normal. I shoot through a weak bifocal to be able to focus my iron sights. When I shoot with my UltraDot on my Mark2, I have to look through the uncorrected portion of my lens (a plano) to have the dot focused. If you are shooting with trifocals, look through the part that you use for far distance.......thats where the dot will appear focused.
 
Kruzr, you are correct!

I can't believe it. The folks on this list are right again! Kruzr, when I look throught the long distance portion of my trifocal lense, the dot is nearly a crisp dot, much better than in any other manner. So, now I may not sell the gun. Thanks for the tip. I'll need to decide if I can live with adjusting my sight angle to compensate, or just give in and buy a conversion kit for the Kimber. Now I have options. The Marvel conversion kit sure looks interesting. Darn eyes! :uhoh:
 
Hourglass Shape Dot

Hmmmm..... I'm 49, and my red dot scope appears to have a dot that looks almost like a figure eight - ball on top of ball - unless I crank the power down.

By the way, I have one of those Merit apertures, and can't get the stupid thing to actually STICK on my glasses - am I missing something? I've tried water (and spit) and neither works. Any hints for an old man? :banghead:
 
By the way, I have one of those Merit apertures, and can't get the stupid thing to actually STICK on my glasses
Click to expand...

Lick it and stick it.

However...
I used a Merit for a couple of years, but obviously I was not very careful one day as it fell off and I lost it at the range. :banghead:

So, I bought a Gehmann to replace it, and I'm quite pleased with it. It helps in all applications at the range, including my problem with the elongated red dot!

One source for the Gehmann Iris:
http://www.nealjguns.com/ss_store/ShootingGlasses.html#586
 
I had a similar problem with red dot scopes but I actually modified one to handle it. Basically I moved the led and grating forward (only about 1/8") until the dot was sharp. I actually didn't think it would work but it did. Not exactly recommended but I tend to like to take things apart anyway. : )
 
Holy thread necromancy!

I actually have the very same issue with my RDS. I wondered for a long time why people swoon over this and that nice 1 MOA or 4 MOA dot on expensive optics when all I saw was an indistinct oblong blob or cluster of dots when I looked through. Yet, looking through a ghost ring sight or a pin-hole and then at the RDS those blobs suddenly become nice crisp dots. What a Bummer!

For anyone else with astigmatism, other than corrective lenses, how do you get around this? Also would a 1-4x optic set at 1x be a better choice over a RDS?
 
A cheap test of whether the Meret iris is for you can be found on a roll of black electrical tape.

Use a small hole punch to make an aperature in the tape, then stick it on your glasses.

I shot with an older fellow in the 5th. Army AMU who won an awful lot of bullseye pistol trophys with a piece of electrical tape stuck on his shooting glasses.

rc
 
RDS

Even if it is out of round a little you can still shoot tight groups and still make your hits in 3-gun matches. I use a Aimpoint ComM4s with a Laure PoBoy magnifier and mount. It helps to use glasses that only have distance in them,

Thanks,Keith
 
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