Old model Charter Arms Undercover .38 misfiring--again.

[tbeb]

Last year I bought an old model (manufactured in early 70's) Charter Arms Undercover .38. Seller didn't tell me that it misfired 3 times every cylinder full... I sent it to Charter Arms and they replaced the firing pin, firing pin spring, and mainspring. I got it back and found it still misfired twice every cylinder full. I called Charter Arms, and they sent me an extra heavy mainspring. That "seemed" to fix it. Today I fired 40-45 rounds, and experienced about 4 misfires. 1 misfire was with a +P Federal factory load. One misfire was with a +P Safestop custom load which uses a Federal primer. 2 misfires were with my standard pressure reload which use a Winchester primer (the one that's like gold in color). Of the 40-45 loads, 7 were +P Federal factory and 5 were +P Safestop custom load. Has anyone had this same problem, and did you get it fixed? I really like this revolver for pocket carry, but I'm about ready to give up on it and buy a S&W.

 

[1911Tuner]

Charter

Sounds like a problem with the transfer bar not allowing the hammer to transfer enough punch to the firing pin. Either it's not getting high enough to make correct contact with the hammer, or possibly bent or sprung and taking too much of the hammer's energy to give the firing pin a good whack. Also could be a short firing pin. Not familiar enough with the Charter revolvers to suggest anything else.

Paging Dr. Keenan!

 

[albanian]

I'm not sure but I don't think the older Charter Arms will take many +Ps. I had a nice SS Off Duty that I shot loose buy just shooting non +P ammo in it. I would think that +P would shorter the life on a Charter.

 

[slopemeno]

Transfer bars have a bit of a tendency to break in the Charter Undercovers. Clear the gun, dry fire it, and check your firing pin protrusion. Is it in the region of 55 thou? Also, what happens if you shoot factory ammo through it?

 

[wingman]

+p not a good idea in a charter arms undercover.

 

[Sunray]

"...+p not a good idea in a charter arms undercover..." That's exactly what I was thinking. When that revolver was new, there was no such thing as +P's.

 

[Zed]

For a start, your using an older firearm, so id ditch the +P loads, keep the loads pretty tame and always use a federal primer. They are softer and easier to set off.
1)Check the transfer bar.
2)check firing pin protrusion, and that the firing pin is making a decent imprint.
3)check the firing pin isn't hitting the frame on its way past, noticable by abnormal scuffing and wearing on the frame.
4) check the headspace and endfloat of the cylinder. The cylinder may be moving forward as the firing pin strikes, reducing firing pin impact, or the firing pin may not be reaching the case due to excessive head space.
5)Check the cylinder is rotating fully to the next case. It may not be hitting the primer at all!

Having said that, try some factory loads, to make sure its not your hand loads that is the problem. I recommend magtec .38 148 grains for target shooting, they are mild and they always go off.

 

[tbeb]

1911Tuner
Transfer bar is coming up high enough in single action and double action. I don't know if it's physical properties (like possibly being bent or sprung) have changed.

albanian
I've only fired about 20 +P's since Charter Arms inspected revolver and installed a few new parts. I agree that +P will accelerate wear on a revolver. I once heard a retired west coast police officer say that he witnessed 10 or less +P+'s making a .38 special inoperable. I don't use +P+...

slopemeno
Firing pin protrusion looks to be enough, but that's kind of hard to measure. I'd say it's not quite .055", but at least, say, .040". I fired 12 Federal factory +P's and experienced 2 misfires. In revolvers I use loads with Federal primers because I know they're the "softest". Somebody mentioned that maybe +P's use harder primers. I don't know about that.

I performed Jim March's revolver check out, and mine passes all tests. Anyhow, with the revolver in full lockout, does anyone know what gap this revolver should have between the rear face of the cylinder and the breech face (I mean face that firing pin protrudes through)?

Finally, I know some problems can't be fixed or aren't worth fixing due to repair costs. I had an early Taurus 85 that was misfiring. 2 trips to Taurus didn't fix the problem, so they offered me a new gun or a full refund. I took the money and bought a S&W 49.

 

[tbeb]

slopemeno

The firing pin protrusion is in the vicinity of .055". It's the thickness of a dime or a little more. The dime I used measured .053".

Cartridge primer is about .035" from the breech face. So the depth of the hit on the primer is about .020" (.055" minus .035" equals .020"). Is this within specs?

 

[Byron Quick]

I've owned three Charter Arms Revolvers including the Undercover. Two Target Bulldogs-one in .44 Spl and one in .357. The .357 was the most accurate 4" revolver I have ever seen...when new. I still have it. It's loose as a goose now. Less than two thousand full power rounds.

Based on my experience with Charter Arms revolvers from the seventies...the gun is most likely worn out. It's like an old clunker. Time you fix one problem...another will develop. Buy a Smith and Wesson. Retire the Undercover to the safe.

 

[tbeb]

Thanks, Byron!

Over the weekend I fired 54 of my Federal primed reloads. Not one misfire. Hm-m-m. Trading for a Smith is something I'm thinking about. Over the weekend I saw a mint Smith 042 (only manufactured one year, 1992). Cost is $225 and my Charter. It's ideal for my mode of carry, but it just doesn't trip my trigger. Same shop has a very good Smith 940 with box and 18 full moon clips. My gun plus $200. I like the 9mm 940. It'll be fine for carrying in long pants pockets, but 23 ounces empty is not so fine for summer shorts pants pockets. I've done some searches, and many talked about sticky extraction. I'd have to find a practice load that's not hard to extract.