One caliber is too big and slow, the other is too small and fast !

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Hokkmike

Hokkmike

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One caliber too big and slow, the other too small and fast - but I love them both.

I am, of course, talking about deer hunting. I have two rifles that are PA eligible for deer hunting. One is a Marlin 1984 Cowboy Limited in .45(LC) and the other a CZ-527 in .223.

(I am considering selling my 1953 Model 94 in .32 WS) I have tried hunting with iron sights and it is just not working with my older eyes. I cannot bring myself to put a scope on this beautiful lever action.

Gun talks and expert commentary both explain that these rounds are usable at shorter ranges for deer. For the .45 the maximum distance would be 75 yards while the .223 might extend out to 150.

I have the Marlin because in my older years I am enjoying all things "cowboy" and have a six-shooter, western holster, and coach shotgun to go with it. The .233 I have because the ammo is plentiful and I can "stock-up". I figure that in any calendar year I spend, at most, four days in the field deer hunting. It doesn't make sense to me to spend money on the perfect caliber, say a 6.5x55, just for that purpose.

So, since my eyes need a little extra help - I will probably use the scoped rifle........

Your thoughts?
 
Hokkmike said:
One caliber too big and slow, the other too small and fast - but I love them both.

I am, of course, talking about deer hunting. I have two rifles that are PA eligible for deer hunting. One is a Marlin 1984 Cowboy Limited in .45(LC) and the other a CZ-527 in .223.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...

Get a CZ 527 in 7.62x39?
 
Wish I could be of help. In lower Michigan, I use a 45LC. In northern Michigan, I use a scoped 6.5x55. I've had the lever gun, a Rossi, for around 5 years, the 6.5x55 for around 15. My eyes appreciate the scoped rifle over longer distances.
 
chicharrones said:
My mistake, I now realize you were referring to choosing between the two guns you have and not picking a new cartridge between the two. :)
Click to expand...
No problem, I always enjoy reading your posts... And your picture, you look sooooo familiar. It is like I have seen you in my living room so many times around Christmas.
 
Do you hand load? If so the 45 can be perked up some from factory. It will knock the stuffing out of any whitetail that ever walked to 125 yards with proper sight in. It is easily doable to 150 if you know the range. I have done it with 452 bullets from a muzzle loader over 100 grs. of black powder substitutes.

Have no experience with the 223. However, with the proper bullet, it should do just fine. A lot of where I hunt is practically bayonet range , so, usually it doesn’t matter.
 
I would choose a big heavy slow bullet, over a tiny fast one. ? I believe there are .45Colt loads on the marker that will extend your range to 100 yards, if you don't reload.
 
Why not put better sights on the 32ws? That’s a dandy deer round, and perfect for what you want to do. Lots of companies make truly good sights for that rifle too, so you could do well for yourself by keeping that rifle and putting it to good use. Sights are not exactly cheap, but the good ones have good resale, so it’s not a huge loss as you can put originals back on to sell the gun.
 
Northern Deer (Whitetail) are usually big and tough. I used a Browning BAR in .30/06 and never had trouble with downing a Deer with one shot. I switched one year to my old Colt SP-1 and Remington 55 Grain soft points because I was foot traveling a pretty fair distance. I hit a nice six pointer Buck right in the heart/ling area and then tracked it well over a mile. It took a second shot to kill it. Back to .30/06.
 
I myself would go with the .223 Remington and a load with a high B.C. bullet designed to provide reliable expansion at lower velocities (2,250 fps range) if you want to reach out there. Then with a 3 inch high @100 yards sight in you'll be good out to 200+ yards. The 55 grain Federal Trophy Copper fits the bill with a B.C. of .305 and a velocity of about 2,400 fps at 240 yards. The minimum advertised velocity for expansion is 1800 fps.
 
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Being that 30-30 is often still considered an ideal deer round, and also ideal for most types of hunting in P.A. (I also live in P.A.), I would love to grab a bolt action rifle in 7.62x39 eventually...with respect to its ballistic similarity to 30-30. I have an AK...but cant hunt with that here, of course. Awhile back I picked up a few hundred rounds of x39 SP's for that day when I finally get said bolt gun in that caliber. I'm not super big into hunting, but I think that would fit my needs perfectly for that without having to add another caliber. Like 30-30, I don't believe x39 either too fast.or too slow. Perhaps just lighter than ideal. Considering what I currently own, I think I would just throw a scope on my 12ga and be happy as a clam with that for all kinds of local hunting.

In your situation I'd go for the big and slow too, like some other people said, and scrubby, woodsy P.A. terrain is a big reason for that. You're more likely to have to track a deer through that terrain using small calibers. Screw that! Go for big and slow. 45LC through a rifle barrel is excellent. And the round is probably easier on the meat than fast and tumbly. Most hunters I've talked to in these parts seem to go the first way, and I'm sure they've mostly made those choices from experience.
 
I don’t understand the statement that the 45-70 is good to about 75 yards. That is absurd.

As it’s a Marlin, i take it that for deer season you can scope it and then return it to its cowboy majesty. The 45-70 should give you a 200 yard MPBR and will be very effective on deer.

On the other hand, if the goal is a Goldilocks cartridge, almost any of the modern sub $500 bolt guns are incredibly accurate these days and any of the 6.5 - 7mm cartridges that they are chambered in will give you an easy and effective 250 yards MPBR.
 
Have you tried a receiver sight or only the factory sights? A Williams Foolproof or XS ghost ring might be sufficient. I also don't think a straight tube 1-4x or something small like the Leupold 2.5x detract too much from the appearance of a levergun. When your eyesight starts to go, sometimes you have to make concessions you normally wouldn't. I wouldn't put anything but a receiver sight on the old Winchester but the Marlin is ready for a scope mount.
 
Me and my family have shot several very large Minnesota deer with .223 55 grain soft points and 67 gr. Shot placement. If you have to track a deer a mile you made a poor shot regardless of caliber. Something like that happened to me with a slug gun. I would like to have your rifle with a good scope. I have shot deer with rounds from 357, 35 Remington slugs, 30-06 and many more. Faster expanding bullets are always been better but shot placement is key. Always. If you like cowboy 30-30 is good. if you want more range and flatter shooting .308 is good. I have settled on 7-08.
I would put a good scope on the .223 rifle and practice with hunting bullets. or pick up a bolt action in the caliber you like. Everybody I know that hunts has a dedicated deer rifle.
 
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DocRock said:
I don’t understand the statement that the 45-70 is good to about 75 yards. That is absurd.

As it’s a Marlin, i take it that for deer season you can scope it and then return it to its cowboy majesty. The 45-70 should give you a 200 yard MPBR and will be very effective on deer.

On the other hand, if the goal is a Goldilocks cartridge, almost any of the modern sub $500 bolt guns are incredibly accurate these days and any of the 6.5 - 7mm cartridges that they are chambered in will give you an easy and effective 250 yards MPBR.
Click to expand...

Hey Doc - it is a 45 Long Colt - Not the 45-70. Thanks.....
 
WestKentucky said:
Why not put better sights on the 32ws? That’s a dandy deer round, and perfect for what you want to do. Lots of companies make truly good sights for that rifle too, so you could do well for yourself by keeping that rifle and putting it to good use. Sights are not exactly cheap, but the good ones have good resale, so it’s not a huge loss as you can put originals back on to sell the gun.
Click to expand...

I did put Williams Fire Sights on it, and they are pretty good. Still it is the old "reading glasses conundrum" - I have a choice, clear sights or clear targets but not both. I have a few other minor misgivings about the 94 (though it is mechanically and cosmetically excellent for a 53) It doesn't ratchet as smoothly as my Marlin and the trigger, while certified 100% safe to use by my gunsmith, is too light for my liking. In keeping one lever (I have another but it is a .22 rimfire) the Marlin is the better choice for me over the Winchester.
 
You may only 'hunt" 4 days a year but you can "shoot' year round. Either the 45 or 223 will kill deer, but neither would be preferable to me. I'd bite the bullet and buy something more appropriate that was still cheap enough to shoot and light enough in recoil to be pleasant for lots of shooting.

The 6.5X55 is an option, but factory ammo isn't common and neither are factory rifles. A 6.5CM checks all the boxes with recoil closer to 243 and readily available rifles and ammo at reasonable prices. Nothing at all wrong with rounds like 257 Roberts, 7-08 or 7X57, but once again finding rifles and ammo is a little harder and more expensive. The 308 is common and cheap enough, but recoil starts to be an issue for some people.

I'd be looking at some of the really accurate budget rifles out there in one of these cartridges. You will have a really good deer hunting rifle for the 4 days you hunt, and something enjoyable and accurate enough to shoot year round.
 
Personally I hate fiberoptics. Too bright, too big.

And can cause your eye to focus on the sights alone and not see past em.

IMHO iron sights, w a receiver peep.......might get you going and avoid a scope for a few more years.

Id not go offset and scope on an old Win 94. It works but just looks funky.
Buy a RAR bolt gun and avoid the hassle.

Cheaper to try a receiver peep on your 94 in .32.

Your Marlin in .45 Colt should be a 100 yard rig w non wimp ammo.
 
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