One gun AR...

[patriot53]

So ok, now that I have a clearer picture between the 5.56 vs. .300AAC BO vs. the 6.8SPC...
...it occured to me, that if I could have only ONE GUN, or if I have many guns (which I do) BUT, had to run off into the hills with only one...
...it may be none of those calibers above, in an AR15.
It may just have to be a AR10 "type"...7.62x51 /.308 ?
It seems to be the best ALL around survival caliber & fighting / hunting gun?

And now...becoming as "light & compact", if not even more so, in some cases, than many AR15's ( some I have are over 8 lbs )...
depending on rail types, barrels, stocks etc., etc.
LaRue Tactical has the PredatAR that is 7 lbs.+...Armalite &
S&W MP10 7 lbs.+, and the lightest perhaps, now , the new DPMS GII MOE or the "base" model, 7.25 lbs.
They sport 16" barrels, the DPMS even has AR15 compatible lowers, as far as parts, triggers, roll pins and such.
So 7.62 / .308 power in an AR15 size package...no more the argument as to weight or size.

Surplus or military 7.62 ammo as cheap as $10./20 for practice right up to great hunting loads & bullets capable of taking any game in North America
(if one reloads, even more cost effective.)
I can go into any store from Walmart to Cabelas to LGS & feed stores and find .308 / 7.62x51 on the shelf.
Now, if not hand-loading...there is even factory recoil reduced loads that may serve better for faster back-on-target sighting, for defensive situations
( or offense, as the case may be?)...just very versatile & economical considering the power bump over the AR15 calibers.

So what say you?

Given its versatility, power & relatively cheap & available ammo...
...is the AR10 type using SR25 pattern mags, in one of these NEW light & compact AR10 types...
...the ultimate "AR-type rifle", for ALL around survival?
Or if you could only have one gun to do everything needed in a
flight, fight & survive scenario...would it be this caliber , in that rifle?

 

[Onmilo]

If I was out west I would agree with you.
Here in the well populated rural central midwest a 5.56 works just fine...

 

[patriot53]

If I was out west I would agree with you.
Here in the well populated rural central midwest a 5.56 works just fine...

Well, ok, should have qualified that...Western USA, Texas, Alaska and...?

 

[yzguy87]

Where can you get 7.62/308 ammo for 10-20¢/round?

 

[chicharrones]

Looks like $10 per 20.

 

[yzguy87]

My bad! I should have paid more attention.

 

[LUCKYDAWG13]

you can carry more 5.56 on you then 308 and i would not feel under gunned with a 5.56
but yes the 308 is a far better round

 

[Robert]

There are more important things in a survival situation than a firearm. But that being said I'd not hesitate to take my AR15. I have more rounds loaded for it than anything else and can carry most of those on my person on in a pack.

I'd really rather have my 375H&H but I have far too few rounds loaded for that to be practical. But again, this is assuming I have shelter, fire and a good source of water first.

 

[patriot53]

Where can you get 7.62/308 ammo for 10-20¢/round?

Walmart...ZQ1 7.62x51 just bought 20 boxes today !
They had about 100-150 boxes at just one of the 15 locations here in Vegas.
It's there all the time. Decent stuff, brass case.
Or, online, at one of the many good remanufactures of re & new ammo...52 cents, often NO shipping "specials" weekends or longer...no tax. Good deal.

 

[patriot53]

you can carry more 5.56 on you then 308 and i would not feel under gunned with a 5.56
but yes the 308 is a far better round

Not an issue...I'm the shooter/hunter, I just load up the ammo on my wife.
LoL, just kidding

 

[patriot53]

There are more important things in a survival situation than a firearm. But that being said I'd not hesitate to take my AR15. I have more rounds loaded for it than anything else and can carry most of those on my person on in a pack.

I'd really rather have my 375H&H but I have far too few rounds loaded for that to be practical. But again, this is assuming I have shelter, fire and a good source of water first.

Well yes of course, those basic things go without saying, but you are correct.
I was speaking ...given those, the firearm, and I would want more than one, if possible, different tools for different jobs.

 

[d2wing]

I am a fan of the AR 15, but I entirely agree with your logic. If you have both you will have all the bases covered.

 

[Welding Rod]

The 15 has the edge IMO. I would consider weight and ammo weight especially a PRIMARY consideration. For the same reason I am found of the pip squeak FN 5.7 pistol.

 

[ZGunner]

I'm a fan of the 5.56 or .223. Lighter overall rifle and lighter ammo. If it comes down to survival I'll take the AR15.

Don't get me wrong. In a normal circumstance I'd take the .308 every time. Better knock down and ballistics. But if I have to hump it for untold miles and fire on untold targets, the 5.56 will do well then.

 

[Gordon]

The last rifle I will get rid of is my Noveske Infidel 5.56 DI. I just put an ACOG LED TA02 4x on it with the ACOG 51 mount it came with. This rifle shoots within 2 inches off it's bipod at 200 yards with good ammo. In California the .223 has shown me to kill all the game animals under elk I have shot at just as cleanly as anything else. I was using 64 grain Winchester powerpoint for deer and the occasional eating sized hog I would shoot with an AR the last 5 years or so. Now I use the new Winchester Razorback ammo for hunting in lead free california
http://www.winchester.com/Products/...zorback-XT/Pages/default.aspx?c=223+Remington
I am under the opinion that M855 green tip will go thru a large even dangerous animals head , if needed.
Just one rifle; the current Infidel is perfect fo me, weighs 8.5 pounds even with a Surefire 900 light and bipod . Stripped down it's under 7 pounds and very compact, it has been dead nutz reliable for me for 3 years and changed my thoughts on ARs.

 

[patriot53]

I'm a fan of the 5.56 or .223. Lighter overall rifle and lighter ammo. If it comes down to survival I'll take the AR15.

Don't get me wrong. In a normal circumstance I'd take the .308 every time. Better knock down and ballistics. But if I have to hump it for untold miles and fire on untold targets, the 5.56 will do well then.

Like I said...EXCEPT for the ammo, the Rifle Weight is not much of an issue now, equal now...depending on brand & Model between the AR15 vs. the AR10, with some AR15's even heavier than a few of the newer AR10 types.

I'm just thinking, ammo availability is equal for both 7.62 /.308 vs. 5.56 /.223
...weight being equal ( if certain rifles are chosen)...

the .308 has greater killing power no matter 2 legs or 4.
Just cost wise, slight edge to .223/5.56 for military FMJ (practice ammo, plinking)...TOP hunting ammo about the same cost for either.
...and ammo for AR15 weighs less for equal #'s of rounds.

The "woods" where I and a bunch other folks may be running around, has Moose, Elk, Mule Deer, Black & Grizzly Bear, Mountain Lion, and Wolves.
Throw in some Zombies or the realistic version of such ( desperate have-nots, anti-gun Liberals...now very thirsty & hungry...well, you get the pic...)
...I think I'll err on the side of stopping power over the .22 cal.?
And when it comes to angry bear & Moose, if I can lug my
.416 Ruger Guide Gun, Sako Kodiak, or Model 70 Safari, .375H&H Mag, Marlin/WWG .457 MAG Guide
even my Merkel SR1 9.3x62...
or if I had vehicle, well I'd sure feel better...that .308 against a committed Grizz charge, may be a might light?

 

[G.barnes]

The weight difference between rifles might not be much but the ammo is a huge difference. My daniel defense v5 with full mag, sights, red dot, tac light and sling weighs 2 pounds less than my 308 with a 1-4 scope and a full mag. Every bullet in 308 weighs almos as much as 3 5.56 rounds. Unless your carrying an unloaded gun there is still a weight difference.

 

[patriot53]

The weight difference between rifles might not be much but the ammo is a huge difference. My daniel defense v5 with full mag, sights, red dot, tac light and sling weighs 2 pounds less than my 308 with a 1-4 scope and a full mag. Every bullet in 308 weighs almos as much as 3 5.56 rounds. Unless your carrying an unloaded gun there is still a weight difference.

Good point, so a 25 round SR25 Pmag of.308 would weigh as much as 2 or 3 Pmags of 5.56/.223...ok, that had not occurred to me, was thinking the weight of carrying extra ammo , more and not considering that , but of course, that is part of a functional ready to shoot gun !

 

[Tirod]

Running off to the hills will only accelerate your demise. Sorry, no game plan which includes abandoning your domicile is a good one. The survivors of bombings in WWII even made do with living in their basements or put up shelter from existing building materials before abandoning their property.

Same with the EF5 here - if you could put up a tarp on the roof, you stayed. You could better protect your possessions - which are what we use to survive in the first place.

Food storage, a water source, sanitary disposal of waste, shelter from the elements, supplies - better to stay home.

Plan on fighting? Plan to protect what you already bought to survive.

What cartridge in the AR platform would be best? In strict terms of combat, it's not 7.62, the Army passed it over back in the '60's, you can carry twice as much 5.56 and it's effective at most normal ranges of contact that humans engage in. The extended range of 7.62 is wasted on the average shooter, who would be plinking at best over 400m. In woodland you can't even see that far. In open country, shooting at game would attract the owners who would be responding to you poaching on their wildlife or herd animals they raise.

It's not good for the roaming coyotes who run off to the woods.

Resupply? Back at the house you could reload whatever you want. Barter and trade, you'd be better off with .30-30, .30-06, or such. Military cartridges are always hoarded and rarely available during a Banic, why would they be more available if it's TEOTWAWKI?

Government troops aren't going to leave it lying around, they cross level in battle, and picking it up from their dead may include a booby trap.

The best answer is to pick the cartridge you find meets your needs now, because that is what you will use in a crisis. Much the same advice about survival knives, the one in your pocket carried every day is the one you will have. Not some tricked out commie killer in a kydex sheath you had to abandon in your burning car set on fire in the parking lot.

Worry more about how you will obtain water, which will be contaminated, and how it will be treated and stored. For every round of ammo you can carry, I expect you will need a gallon of water for an extended stay. That's one a day, minimum, per person, and most of us have no way to deal with that.

We spent all our money on guns and ammo. It would make an interesting movie.

 

[patriot53]

Running off to the hills will only accelerate your demise. Sorry, no game plan which includes abandoning your domicile is a good one. The survivors of bombings in WWII even made do with living in their basements or put up shelter from existing building materials before abandoning their property.

Same with the EF5 here - if you could put up a tarp on the roof, you stayed. You could better protect your possessions - which are what we use to survive in the first place.

Food storage, a water source, sanitary disposal of waste, shelter from the elements, supplies - better to stay home.

Plan on fighting? Plan to protect what you already bought to survive.

What cartridge in the AR platform would be best? In strict terms of combat, it's not 7.62, the Army passed it over back in the '60's, you can carry twice as much 5.56 and it's effective at most normal ranges of contact that humans engage in. The extended range of 7.62 is wasted on the average shooter, who would be plinking at best over 400m. In woodland you can't even see that far. In open country, shooting at game would attract the owners who would be responding to you poaching on their wildlife or herd animals they raise.

It's not good for the roaming coyotes who run off to the woods.

Resupply? Back at the house you could reload whatever you want. Barter and trade, you'd be better off with .30-30, .30-06, or such. Military cartridges are always hoarded and rarely available during a Banic, why would they be more available if it's TEOTWAWKI?

Government troops aren't going to leave it lying around, they cross level in battle, and picking it up from their dead may include a booby trap.

The best answer is to pick the cartridge you find meets your needs now, because that is what you will use in a crisis. Much the same advice about survival knives, the one in your pocket carried every day is the one you will have. Not some tricked out commie killer in a kydex sheath you had to abandon in your burning car set on fire in the parking lot.

Worry more about how you will obtain water, which will be contaminated, and how it will be treated and stored. For every round of ammo you can carry, I expect you will need a gallon of water for an extended stay. That's one a day, minimum, per person, and most of us have no way to deal with that.

We spent all our money on guns and ammo. It would make an interesting movie.

Ok...fair enough, NOT entirely what I meant when I said "...run off into the hills", my bad.
I should have been clearer & qualified that.
What you said is for the most part true, about leaving your domicile...
but that could LARGLEY depend on WHERE your domicile is...and where you are
"running off into the hills"... TO?
If my city home is not equiped for survival and is in a densly populated area, ...and my destination "in the hills" , is a well equipped / stocked shelter , then that could change things...and that is MORE what I had in mind, though poorly stated.

I live in VEGAS.
Though I believe it highly unlikely...If it really looked like an eminent SHTF scenerio is going down...well before it goes really south, I'll be at a far more remote domicile in MT. with family, well stocked, supplied and protected and in an area with like-minded "equipped" neighbors.
I don't really worry about this happening, do not think it will, would prepare more for natural disasters, or those from a foreign ( or domestic ) terror attack, taking out infrastructure or resources...than my own Govt. going that bad & hunting me down?

Maybe I should have OP'd "if you can ONLY own.afford, etc., 1 Rifle...",
...just for Hunting & defense in open areas.
Survival was not my primary concern...though my "...into the hills" phrase would suggest it was...it was more "what would be the best ALL AROUND Caliber for an AR type rifle?"

 

[Jackal]

My bug out bag ( for lack of a better term ), houses a takedown .22lr Marlin Papoose. In a survival situation, a gun is the least of your worries. But, a pouch full of .22lr will put far more meat into your stomach than a couple AR mags worth ever will. Most folks find out quickly that small game is far more abundant than large game and also a lot more calorie/energy efficient. Its also a lot less wasteful than killing a large animal to feed only one person, since you would have few ways of preserving food very long.

 

[patriot53]

My bug out bag ( for lack of a better term ), houses a takedown .22lr Marlin Papoose. In a survival situation, a gun is the least of your worries. But, a pouch full of .22lr will put far more meat into your stomach than a couple AR mags worth ever will. Most folks find out quickly that small game is far more abundant than large game and also a lot more calorie/energy efficient. Its also a lot less wasteful than killing a large animal to feed only one person, since you would have few ways of preserving food very long.

You are correct...but my OP was not "intended", ( sorry if I misled...?) for "Bug-Out" only scenario, or even primarily for that...
Just what would be the best ALL around, fighting & hunting caliber for NOW...no event, bug-out, SHTF, just wooded 10 acre home defense, big game hunting, range days...
...relatively cheapo military FMJ to exotic Hunting rounds, to even competition type ammo.
Started thinking, can anything beat the .308/7.62x51...?
And, yes, the 5.56/.223 is still a bit cheaper on the low end, military FMJ...not so much or at all with hunting or target rounds...
...but not nearly as good or even ethical for large Bucks, Elk, Caribou, Moose...and life threatening for Grizzly, and I hunt & romp in Grizzly country, along with Black bear & Cougers, Wolves.

So no offense, but your post, as correct as it is...and true, in that context...is not where I intended the thread to go.
But thanks for your contribution.
It is why I put my Ruger 10/22 at the top of my list, from my vast gun collection, as one of the TOP TEN I would run away with,
"to the hills", my survival fortress, ( exists )...
...but in what I believe to be , mostly a "Fantasy" scenario, that fuels EXTREME "preppers" and the like, and LoL...helps some of us guys (shhhhh, quiet, now...) JUSTIFY that "next-gun" to the wifey

 

[taliv]

Wandered over the SHTF line way too many times. While there are many topics that are more important than guns, this isn't the place to discuss them