one-handed shooting: why tilt?

[badbadtz560]

Just watched the expertvillage vid on shooting one handed.. is there any reason to tilt the gun when u shoot one-handed? he says to do it but doesn't say why.. just makes me curious

 

[rbernie]

I have found that a slight inward cant helps me control the pistol in recoil. It seems to recoil straight back if I tilt it slightly, and it wants to kick up/out if I hold it up-n-down normally.

Dunno why - it just does.

 

[Erik]

It has to do with lining up the arms muscles, bones, and tendons. Some find it helps; others do not. YMMV.

 

[Steve in PA]

Its the natural rotation of your wrist. You don't throw a punch with your fist straight up and down do you?

The idea is not to shoot gangsta style, but a slight rotation.....maybe 30-45 degrees is natural for most people.

 

[badbadtz560]

hmmm ya.. in terms of natural positioning.. why not shoot gangsta style? does that go against how the pistol is made to shoot if you tilt it too much?

 

[Sam1911]

hmmm ya.. in terms of natural positioning.. why not shoot gangsta style? does that go against how the pistol is made to shoot if you tilt it too much?

Too much of a good thing. You're looking for a "sweet spot" where the gun is most controllable for you. The gun is NOT most controllable when you've jacked it all the way over on its side.

Also, notice the shooter's stance in the last picture. He's weight-forward, support hand clenched against his chest, firing hand cocked slightly over into his "natural" rotation. While you can't see this, he's probably clenching his support arm and shoulder muscles as well as his upper torso/abdominal muscles to try and lock his upper body as tight as possible. This gives him the maximum control he can get with only one hand on the gun. (Also keeps that support hand out of harm's way.)

Good techniques to learn if you want to make the pistol go fast and still hit what you're aiming at one-handed.

-Sam

 

[CDH]

The Center Axis Relock method (C.A.R.) also "encourages" you to tilt the pistol slightly (not force it sideways) in order to find the natural position that best lines up the pistol with your arm.
There's a position that almost eliminates muzzle flip if everything else in your position is in place to support it.

I find that holding the pistol in closer also gives you better control and allows faster multiples while keeping a tighter pattern of hits.

 

[Walkalong]

I never saw a bullseye shooter do it, and it does not seem "natural" to me, but that's just me.

 

[ArmedBear]

I've seen a bullseye shooter do it -- an Olympic gold medalist I shoot with.

However, he only does it with his .45 1911, that I've noticed, not with a .22. He shot 499/500 last Thursday's league, and the 9 was because he pulled the trigger prematurely. So it apparently works.

He does not tilt NEARLY as much as the picture above, though. That looks excessive, and you start having issues with where the sights point I think -- especially with a dot sight.

 

[Sam1911]

Yes, it's not, generally, a bullseye technique. Any high-precision shooting is going to require precise sight alignment for every single shot. A slow-fire target shooter may or may not find a bit of cant comfortable and repeatable. But his stance will probably not look much like that of the shooter in the picture above.

The shooter in the picture above is engaging in a more "run-and-gun" sport like USPSA/IPSC or IDPA. (And I would say it's the former as he's not wearing a cover garment.) In those sports a shooting form like this works well to help soak up recoil while shooting fast and on the move -- where "precision" is simply hitting an 8" circle from 7-15 yds.

-Sam

 

[ArmedBear]

Still, though, 2700 shooters need to minimize muzzle jump for timed and rapid fire. And this guy, probably the best pistol shooter I've known, does use a cant as part of his centerfire technique.

So it CAN work even when you're trying to hit something tiny at 25 yards, not something big at 10.

It probably takes a good number of rounds before you find out what works for YOU -- which is what counts in the end.

 

[easyrider604]

It probably takes a good number of rounds before you find out what works for YOU -- which is what counts in the end.

Exactly!!!

 

[Meowhead]

Because it's more comfortable?

For me it varies with the [strike]gat[/strike] gun. For instance I'll hold almost every revolver straight. Same with a target .22 auto. But something about the shape and recoil of a larger-caliber automatic makes me tilt the thing to the side. Very slightly for a Sig, about thirty degrees or so for a Browning Hi-Power. [strike]I'M GANGSTA, YO[/strike]Rather than worry how it looks, I just do whatever feels comfortable.

If I owned a Glock I'd feel obligated to put sights on the sides. Both sides, to make it really ambidextrous.

 

[ArmedBear]

Oh yeah, with a Glock, it's because the grip angle was apparently designed by someone who had never fired a handgun before. Tilting is probably a way that some people have, to get the thing to point straight.

My personal Glock pointing technique is to point my finger at something other than a Glock in the display case, when I go to buy a gun.

 

[SaxonPig]

The Late Jeff Cooper denounced tilting the pistol as bad form learned from watching ghetto thugs in movies. I think he had it right.

 

[rcmodel]

So it CAN work even when you're trying to hit something tiny at 25 yards, not something big at 10.

It can only work if you always do it that way, and have the pistol sighted in to shoot to POA with the gun tilted.

Otherwise, the bullets trajectory, (drop) in combination with the sights, and recoil impulse, tilted off of the vertical bore axis, is not going to shoot exactly where you have it pointed.

When I shot competition for 5th. Inf. AMU, a vertical hold, or at least a repeatable hold your gun was sighted in for, was stressed as being critical to best scoring accuracy.

rc

 

[ArmedBear]

rc- of course you're correct. A 2700 shooter who uses an odd grip will typically have an odd mount and a canted Ultradot to match.

Just picking up a regular gun and doing it will not be good for much besides hitting a large target at a short distance. And if you adjust regular irons to compensate, you'd better be holding EXACTLY the same every time (which you won't be), and never shoot any different distances with it either.

 

[Sam1911]

The Late Jeff Cooper denounced tilting the pistol as bad form learned from watching ghetto thugs in movies. I think he had it right.

Of course, as perceptive, thoughtful, and wise a man as Col. Cooper was, he would have also denounced in the gravest terms the idea that further development of the modern technique would cease with his passing.

Lighting has been refined a bit since Thomas Edison died. Pistol craft marches on as well.

The good Col. would want practitioners to employ only what works -- regardless of how it appears to the unpracticed eye. (Or which hollywood heavies attempt -- poorly -- to co-opt it.)

-Sam

 

[Gryffydd]

The exercise I learned was to point at something with your index finger with your arm outstretched but relaxed. Whatever angle your hand ends up at is the neutral point.

I have found that when using a completely vertical hold with one hand the recoil feels unnatural and it takes me longer to get back on target. When shooting one handed I usually cant about 15-20 degrees at most but it makes a huge difference for recoil control.

 

[Gunfighter123]

When I shoot strong-hand only , the gun is held straight up & down.

When I shoot weak-hand only { lefty} I cant the gun inward by a few degrees ---- has to do with the tourg of the bullet engageing the rifleing.

 

[DRZinn]

In general, what is most natural will be your best stance/grip/position.

Point at something. Your hand will be at an angle. Use that angle.

 

[Spyvie]

---- has to do with the tourg of the bullet engageing the rifleing.

Don't forget to account for the rotation of the Earth, wind shear, and possible freak sunspot activity.

Once a shooter masters all these variables, it is possible to curve bullets just like in the movies.

 

[6_gunner]

I'm going to have to try this one-handed technique the next time I'm at the range. I've never been able to hit squat without using a two-handed stance. Perhaps this will help.

One question: If it's natural to tilt slightly inward when shooting one-handed, why not do the same when shooting two-handed?

 

[DRZinn]

'Cause you can't tilt both hands inward and have any kind of a grip.

 

[sm]

Good points made, to which I will add-

This assists with weak hand shooting for all the reasons already mentioned; also the fact the weak hand is now shooting with the dominant eye.

Or to put it another way, when shooting with the hand not of the same side as dominant eye.