Open Carry => 911 Call (Virginia)

[GEM]

Why would a ban on open carry be unconstitutional? The Supreme Court has ruled that a ban on all carry is unconstitutional. The way I read the Bruen decision, a scheme that only allows licensed concealed carry would pass muster (provided the licenses are issued on an objective basis).

The Bruen decision will be an abject and total failure in NYS unless some court quickly declares the laws passed in response to be unconstitutional. The legislature is banning every avenue of practical carry. A big risk is that only some parts of the laws will be declared unconstitutional - such as the media search and being a good citizen. If the sensitive places rules and opt in for businesses survive, carry is useless for everyday life. MUH PROPERTY RIGHTZ and the wedding cake fears of some might let the courts allow opt in. Library, government building and houses of worship bans might survive as for the latter - you don't want to insult a deity or the deity will divinely save you. Of course, it is just a ploy to ban carry. Given Jews, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists and Muslims have been mowed down, I wouldn't hold my breath for a miracle.

In TX, I saw three non law OC types. All were best described as incompetent doofuses from mode of carry and equipment. Nothing like a felt sausage, flapping around under your giant belly flap.

 

[RealGun]

How would a "concealed carry badge" pertain to open carry?

In South Carolina open carry is only available to concealed weapon permit holders, consistent with the training requirement for a CWP. The reaction here is that more places now prohibit firearms upon entry, concealed or not, as our law allows.

 

[RealGun]

Detectives here open carry with a badge hung by the holster. My single encounter was to observe a snub worn with a trucked in shirt, well dressed but casual, entering a restaurant. We felt safer.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I lived in Virginia about two dozen years ago. Concealed carry in establishments that served alcohol (almost all restaurants) was forbidden -- BUT open carry was legal, and had no such restriction. So if you took the family out to dinner, you just took off your jacket and you entered the restaurant and you were legally open carrying.

 

[TomVA]

Actually in Virginia you may carry concealed in establishments licensed to serve alcohol (specifically restaurants or clubs), but you cannot consume any alcohol while on the premises. As you note, open carry has no restrictions except that you cannot carry anywhere in Virginia while "under the influence", so drinking should be limited if at all.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter7/section18.2-308.012/

A club is defined as:

"Club" means any private nonprofit corporation or association which is the owner, lessee, or occupant of an establishment operated solely for a national, social, patriotic, political, athletic, or other like purpose, but not for pecuniary gain, the advantages of which belong to all of the members. It also means the establishment so operated.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/4.1-100/

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Actually in Virginia you may carry concealed in establishments licensed to serve alcohol (specifically restaurants or clubs), but you cannot consume any alcohol while on the premises. As you note, open carry has no restrictions except that you cannot carry anywhere in Virginia while "under the influence", so drinking should be limited if at all.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter7/section18.2-308.012/

A club is defined as:

"Club" means any private nonprofit corporation or association which is the owner, lessee, or occupant of an establishment operated solely for a national, social, patriotic, political, athletic, or other like purpose, but not for pecuniary gain, the advantages of which belong to all of the members. It also means the establishment so operated.

https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/4.1-100/

I'm talking about the 1990s when I lived there.

When the Shall-Issue Concealed Carry law passed, judges were responsible for issuing the licenses. One judge in NOVA refused to issue licenses. Now in those days, the Republicans had just achieved parity in the legislature -- first time since Reconstruction. Judges were appointed by the legislature for 6-year terms -- but re-appointed automatically when the Democrats were running things. That judge was up for re-appointment.

He was shocked to learn he was going to have to appear before the Committee (in accordance with the State Constitution). He was insulted to learn that ORDINARY CITIZENS were going to be allowed to speak before the Committee. And he was outraged at what they said!

He didn't get reappointed!

Other NOVA judges got the message -- but agreed to charge $500. They were invited to come before the Committee and justify the charge. The Committee 'lowed as how it couldn't cost more than $50 to issue a license, so the Legislature set $50 as the cost -- and made the license good for 5 years.

 

[Craig_AR]

Actually in Virginia you may carry concealed in establishments licensed to serve alcohol (specifically restaurants or clubs), but you cannot consume any alcohol while on the premises.

That was a change to the law in Virginia after @Vern Humphrey lived there. I lived there before and after the change. Used to take an OWB holster for open carry with me when shooting at the NRA HQ Range in order to have lunch at Anita's on the way home.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm sorry because I didn't read all 4 pages of the thread so sorry if I repeat.

I saw many posts in the ones I did read saying, "to keep open carry you should not open carry." What good is it to have a right you can't use? What's the difference if the outcome is not carrying openly?

Not saying if the opinion is right or wrong, just wondering what good comes of this? The more you hide your gun the more people don't know it's perfectly legal and have no way of seeing it's normal or can get used to seeing guns without being scared. Just my opinion of course.

 

[GEM]

The theoretic aspect was to confirm the RKBA. The practical aspects were:
1. To protect folks against prosecution from exposure of a concealed weapon - as if the wind blows open your garment or the like.
2. 'Tactically' (whatever that means) most experts (whomever they are) think it gives you little real world advantage.
3. Stylistically, most OC folks that are seen are not the paragons of proper equipment choice and easily disarmed.
4. Quite a few reviews of OC folks coming to a bad end
5. Does it deter attack - mixed bag - we don't know what never happened.
6. OC a long arm and a number of concealed carriers in today's world are tooling up to shoot you for the slightest suspect move.
7. States like TX had specific signage to ban concealed carry but the signs were few. There was a specific sign to ban OC as folks didn't like seeing doofuses that were OCing. Thus, they put up the OC sign AND the CC sign - for a net loss.

So the right is a good thing to have and probably not a good thing to do. To give a stupid example. In TX, you were legal if you wore a garment that just covered your butt and genitals. Thus, a guy would wear a flesh color thong and bicycle around the fancy neighborhood for fun. He had the right. Do you think it was a good idea?