Prince Yamato
Member
Yup. I noticed that too. I don't see anyone open-carry, but I see a lot of 30.07 and 30.06 signs going up in places that were otherwise not posted before.
Open carry in Texas 'much ado about nothing,' despite doomsayers' predictions
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Yup. I noticed that too. I don't see anyone open-carry, but I see a lot of 30.07 and 30.06 signs going up in places that were otherwise not posted before.
Ed Ames
Member
Years ago I was driving through New Mexico (open carry state) and stopped at a Costco (no open carry sign by the front door).
Normally I would expect the most interesting part of such a visit to be the ability to stock up on frozen roasted hatch chilies, but on that particular day there was a guy checking out with an empty holster on his hip.
Immediately after he finished paying for his cart-load of bulk values, a store employee apologetically stopped him. I wasn't close enough to hear every word, but it was clear that the employee was trying to make clear that he was just the messenger but store policy bla bla. The customer obviously pointed out that the holster was empty and how did that apply to him exactly? They were friendly enough and the employee left the customer alone after a final attempt to make it clear that if it was up to him it wouldn't be a problem but it wasn't up to him.
I have no proof that was a step down the normalization path, but I suspect it was. It also didn't look particularly stupid. It looked like the guy removed his pistol before going into a store that prohibited carry.
horsemen61
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Wait the blood didn't run in the streets 
I'm shocked the antis said it would 
I'm shocked the antis said it would Big parking lot, you walk across it to the store with empty holster.
To the young or criminal, it says - FREE GUN in CAR!
Also, leave your keys in it and the car running.
The small number of potential OC types vs. a giant corporation and whether the minimum wage crew gets all excited and calls the President and says - OH, Dear - Goober came in with an empty holster!! Let's change policy!!
A restaurant I frequent put up a 07. I asked the manager if they got any negativity for this local chain's corporate decision. He said a couple of guys were angry. BTW, the restaurant was jammed to the gills.
It may be the case that rational approaches to Half-Price might roll back the 06 signs. Let's hope so.
For the cliche minded, it isn't blood in the streets - it's the darn ban signs for CHL that are increasing in major venues. That is a great victory for antigunners, so Goober can OC in limited venues
Mainsail
Member
So Texas isn't the gun owner Valhalla they claim to be? We've been openly carrying in the very left-leaning city of Seattle for coming on ten years now, and I know of no cases where signs were posted banning it. And property owners in WA aren't even constrained by the 30.06 or .07 sign restrictions whatsoever, they can just scrawl NO GUNS on an old piece of cardboard.
In fact, despite almost a decade of open carry all over the state, we're still visiting all the old familiar places, and not a sign in sight.
So you're saying that Texas is less gun friendly than Washington?
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
I think we all know the answer to that question, and have for a long time, but what do you expect to gain by making a point of it?
Mainsail
Member
I want to hear why the poster believes that open carry has suddenly caused property owners to ban firearms. If he seriously believes that open carry has caused the effect, maybe he could say so and provide some content.
Playing coy is not how adults communicate.
stonecutter2
Member
Same thing happened here in Illinois with concealed carry.
We had predictions of blood flowing in the streets, shoot outs, etc. Garry McCarthy, the Chicago police superintendent even said that if you're concealed carrying, you might get shot by a cop and that's how it's going to be. The same guy was canned after video finally came out where Laquan McDonald was indeed shot when he turned, except he wasn't carrying a firearm, and he was turning AWAY from the cops when they unloaded on him.
Anyways, it's a recurring theme that nothing really changes when these new firearm laws come out. That's because the people following the law are generally not the ones you should worry about!
We had predictions of blood flowing in the streets, shoot outs, etc. Garry McCarthy, the Chicago police superintendent even said that if you're concealed carrying, you might get shot by a cop and that's how it's going to be. The same guy was canned after video finally came out where Laquan McDonald was indeed shot when he turned, except he wasn't carrying a firearm, and he was turning AWAY from the cops when they unloaded on him.
Anyways, it's a recurring theme that nothing really changes when these new firearm laws come out. That's because the people following the law are generally not the ones you should worry about!
Huh? Did you miss the posts about all the signs that are appearing after the law went into effect?
Here's a web site documenting the bans.
www.texas3006.com
Newspaper reports - you can google for more.
Once again, it isn't the blood in the street mantra that is the problem!
http://www.houstonmatters.org/show/...es-of-open-carry-mondays-show-february-1-2016
http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2016/01/did-open-carry-backfire-on-texas-gun-owners.html/
Mainsail
Member
Guy B. Meredith
Member
Looks like the next step for Texas is to have exemption on the .06 and .07 for people with CHL.
Here in Oregon CHL holders can go anywhere--signs or no signs--except courts and Federal properties (post office). Open carry is also legal and, unlike California, if you are "made" while carrying concealed there is no problem.
However, I would not be surprised with a hard veer to the left and attendant BS with the current leftist gang being in majority in the state government.
Where's the "clenched teeth" smily?
Here in Oregon CHL holders can go anywhere--signs or no signs--except courts and Federal properties (post office). Open carry is also legal and, unlike California, if you are "made" while carrying concealed there is no problem.
However, I would not be surprised with a hard veer to the left and attendant BS with the current leftist gang being in majority in the state government.
Where's the "clenched teeth" smily?
waterhouse
Member
The 30.06 sign is specifically aimed at people with a concealed handgun license, and the 30.07 sign is the same language sign for open carry.
Just a guess, but I'd say they were neither pro or anti gun all along, they were indifferent and cared about running their grocery store or coffee shop and making profit.
I'm not familiar with how other states passed open carry. Was it signed before, or at the same time, or later than concealed carry in those states? When I lived in VA, OC was legal but I rarely saw it and I don't know the legislative history. Here, OC was widely publicized and got voted down (or not voted on) for legislative sessions which only meet once every two years. It took a long time to get it passed and it was a hot button topic. If it was exactly like that in all of the other states that you mention then I don't know why it is different here.
When the law passed, there was an outcry from anti-gunners that "we won't shop at your store if we see a gun." Then there was a cry from pro-gunners of "we won't shop if you don't allow guns." Many businesses that still just care about doing business and don't care about guns put up 30.07 signs to keep things the way they had always been. Some businesses that probably didn't understand the law purchased combined signs with 30.06 and 30.07.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
That sort of misses the point. As waterhouse says, the 30.06 signs are specifically to disallow licensed concealed carriers from bringing their guns into an establishment, and the 30.07 signs disallow open carry. So that exemption would be sort of like writing the law to say "The speed limit here is 55 mph, but anyone going over 55 mph is exempt from this law."
Do the 30.06 signs carry the weight of the law or is it like in some states where the no guns signs carry no weight?
I go into places with no gun signs when I conceal carry because it's concealed and all they can do is ask you to leave. If you refuse then the cops can get involved.
Pete
I go into places with no gun signs when I conceal carry because it's concealed and all they can do is ask you to leave. If you refuse then the cops can get involved.
Pete
Mainsail
Member
OC never passed in WA; it always was because no law was passed forbidding it. It was widely held to be illegal under a misunderstanding of a particular RCW regarding "display" with an intent to intimidate or that warrants alarm for the safety of, and because nobody did it. So while always legal, it became accepted because acceptable people started doing it.
Was there really an outcry or did the property owners merely perceive an outcry? I believe the latter. For the first time in perhaps a very long time good Texans are going to have to assert their rights, and talk to the property owners.
There are some big differences in OC/CC between TX and most of the other OC legal states, one being that OC requires a permit from the state to carry either way. Property owners need to be made aware that the customers with those permits are considerably more vetted than the objecting customers who have never passed a background check.
jr_watkins
Member
not yet
I haven't opened carried yet....but it is still winter and even though the temps are in the 70's, it is still comfortable to CC. Once the temps rise I suspect others and myself will increase the open carry.
On the discussion of going into the HEB grocery store or other stores that post 30.07 signs, I understand that. I do the same thing with CC, meaning I take my pistol out when I go in a bar or something, but I keep the holster on. Kind of like wearing a watch, you feel like you are missing something if not on. I understand that you can't see an empty CC holster.
By the way, HEB stores are monstrous with literally hundreds of cars in the parking lot. The idea that the criminal is there watching everyone get out of their cars to see who has an empty holster on their hip is ill founded. Talk about your over-reaction and fear mongering! When the first gun is stolen out of a car of a person who went into the store with an empty holster, then we can discuss it seriously, but not until then.
I haven't opened carried yet....but it is still winter and even though the temps are in the 70's, it is still comfortable to CC. Once the temps rise I suspect others and myself will increase the open carry.
On the discussion of going into the HEB grocery store or other stores that post 30.07 signs, I understand that. I do the same thing with CC, meaning I take my pistol out when I go in a bar or something, but I keep the holster on. Kind of like wearing a watch, you feel like you are missing something if not on. I understand that you can't see an empty CC holster.
By the way, HEB stores are monstrous with literally hundreds of cars in the parking lot. The idea that the criminal is there watching everyone get out of their cars to see who has an empty holster on their hip is ill founded. Talk about your over-reaction and fear mongering! When the first gun is stolen out of a car of a person who went into the store with an empty holster, then we can discuss it seriously, but not until then.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
I think he has done a perfectly acceptable job of doing so. Perhaps open carry itself has not created the desire to put up these signs, but rather the FEAR that someone will open carry has created that desire. Of course one would then argue that the ... efforts ... of some of the open carry movement folks in TX have exacerbated that fear. Does that change the picture somehow?
Or are you suggesting that the appearance of 30.07 (and more 30.06) signs directly following the change in the law is a wild coincidence?
Does taunting Texans by pointing out that even Washington state has (some) better laws really help? I think they're painfully aware.
"So Texas isn't the gun owner Valhalla they claim to be? We've been openly carrying in the very left-leaning city of Seattle for coming on ten years now..."
I'm not sure who's playing coy, but I know who's wearing their questionably tenuous state superiority complex on their sleeve.
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jr_watkins
Member
30.06
Yes, the 30.06 sign is the law. These signs are of specific wording and letter size. They are the only (well, now 30.07) signs that mean anything legally. All the other "no gun" signs are legally meaningless to the CC permit holder.
Yes, the 30.06 sign is the law. These signs are of specific wording and letter size. They are the only (well, now 30.07) signs that mean anything legally. All the other "no gun" signs are legally meaningless to the CC permit holder.
Mainsail
Member
There's nothing coy about it Sam, the question is simple; what makes TX unique among all the other (not just WA) states that have OC, and causing these signs to suddenly appear?
If I have cancer but don't know about it, my cancer is entirely unaffected by my ignorance of it. If these property owners have always been anti-gun, but good TX citizens were unaware until OC passage compelled those property owners to acknowledge it, then the appearance of those signs may be a benefit to the gun owners, not an injury to their rights.
If Joe's Fruitstand suddenly posts 30.06 and 30.07 signs, then Joe is and always was antigun, and gun owners were unwittingly supporting him. The passage of OC didn't change Joe's viewpoint, it only exposed it.
waterhouse
Member
I can't speak for all sates, but you said yourself:
You yourself posted one pretty big reason why Texas is different from your state. In your state it was always legal, in Texas it was illegal until 01/01/16.
The signs began "suddenly appearing" about the time the law went into effect.
I disagree with this assessment. If Joe's only goal in life is to make money, and he makes more money by posting the signs than he does by not posting the signs, he is neither pro nor anti gun. He is pro making a living. While the 2nd amendment and the further right to defend ourselves is important to us, some people go months and months without even considering such things. They consider things that are important to them, like how to pay their mortgage or afford that new bass boat.
If Joe was anti-gun, or if he felt that a 30.06 sign would make him more money, he could have had one up for decades. 30.07 signs were not needed until about 45 days ago.
I haven't been to Seatle in about 15 years, so I don't know what kinds of shopping you have there. Within 15 miles of my house there are dozens of places to buy groceries, mostly large supermarkets but a few smaller places. All have 30.07 signs. I'll keep buying food, because food is important to me.
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Mainsail
Member
Thank you for getting the discussion moving again!
OK, I can agree with that conclusion, maybe not universally, but at least on some level. Businesses are almost always driven by the objective of making a profit vs making a political statement (although some try to do both). So then is the answer to tuck tail and run, or is the solution to educate Joe and his like-minded sign posters? Is there another answer altogether? However you want to resolve it, assuming one wants to resolve it instead of just crying about the evils of OC passage, complaining is most certainly not going to be the effective response.
There are a lot of gun laws with which to disagree, but complaining about a pro-gun law isn’t going to help anything.
Then vote-with-your-wallet would not be a good tactic, however that is only one of many ways people protest. The point is to do something about it, not lay about lamenting it.
buck460XVR
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I wonder how much all the whining from pro-gun folks about idiots and OCing before it became legal in Texas, led to the negative attitude towards it from others who were once neutral to the idea. It certainly didn't do any good. I am continuously befuddled by the anti-gun sentiments posted here by so-call pro-gun fanatics because a few folks irresponsibly carried their EBRs into their local Chipotle, so now, everyone that OCs must be as stupid and irresponsible. But, when a CWCer irresponsibly pulls out his EDC and shoots someone accidentally, it's just the cost of doing business and an isolated incident by one idiot, completely different than other CWCers..
I like the idea of the empty holster. Maybe once folks get accustomed to seeing empty holsters, after a while, one with a gun won't be so scarey. Baby steps maybe, eh?
Texas....by GOD! Just not when it comes to OC, eh?
BSA1
member
I am not sure why Open Carry was made into such a big issue in Texas as there is a clear history of the success of open carry in many other states.
I surmise that most of doom and gloom predictions by the media and anti-gun factions is due to the large population of Texas. As our 2nd largest State passage of restrictive gun laws represent a major coup for them.
As it stands now the Midwest States are the standard bearers for Conservatives and gun rights.
I surmise that most of doom and gloom predictions by the media and anti-gun factions is due to the large population of Texas. As our 2nd largest State passage of restrictive gun laws represent a major coup for them.
As it stands now the Midwest States are the standard bearers for Conservatives and gun rights.
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