Open carry of long gun in Wal-Mart

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Double_J

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This occurred last Sunday night in my hometown. The thought is it was a second amendment demonstration, just not completely thought out in my opinion. I have been following it for the past few days to see what the outcome is and I am not surprised with what happened. The police department had to use the "Disturbing the peace" charge for the two individuals. The charge is so broad it can mean anything the arresting officer wants it to mean. I do hope they get proper legal counsel and not just take whatever plea is given to them. The max penalty is $500 and 6 months in jail so it is not that big of a deal at this point. The police department really had to reach to find a charge for this case, and I hope it blows up in their face as they "had to charge them with something."

http://www.sunherald.com/2015/06/26/6295868_men-who-carried-rifle-into-wal.html?rh=1
 
Play stupid games and you win stupid prizes, he never should have loaded it and racked a shell, and he wouldn't be out the bail money. Now it's time to pay the fiddeler. Just IDIOTS giving gun people a bad name
 
I'm curious what the purpose of loading it and racking the slide was? I support the right to carry guns be it big or small but it's all in the way you carry yourself.

Im sure you can carry a baseball bat but walking around making a spectical
of yourself tapping it on your hand will probably bring some attention and in my opinion for good reason.

Heck, if you walked into Walmart and just put it in the cart and just shopped I bet few would even notice
 
We've had plenty of discussions about open carry in public places and the majority opinion is that it does more harm than good. When you do this -

Police said Saucier "engaged in the lawful open carry of a pump-action shotgun," but he then loaded the shotgun and pumped it in front of witnesses, creating a breach of the peace.

Only fools see you as carrying out a 2A protest. These 18 and 19 year old fools were not supporting the 2A. They were attention seeking nit wit using us as their excuse for their idiotic behavior. They are to be repudiated.
 
Play stupid games and you win stupid prizes, he never should have loaded it and racked a shell, and he wouldn't be out the bail money. Now it's time to pay the fiddeler. Just IDIOTS giving gun people a bad name
this^

he failed to take the high road, instead he took the low road and the result reflects poorly on us all.
 
An idiot doing stupid things with guns in stupid places, in the end, is just an idiot, not a gun rights activist.

I haven't read the article. Please excuse me if I don't wish to read more drivel about idiots. No doubt they felt compelled to share this with the world via their cell phone cameras. No doubt they feel they are patriots. I'm getting tired of hearing that word in that context. :barf:
 
Sometime I wonder if people like this aren't actually playing on the other team and doing things like this to (as intended) to cast REAL pro-2nd Amendment folks in a very poor light.
 
Stupidity is the simpler solution. Unfortunately when OUR stupid people do something they do moronic things like rack the gun to scare the folks around them and the idiot thinks it is funny and we end up with a black eye. Our response should be to repudiate them and vilify the behavior.
 
This is why the responsible gun community needs to publicly and loudly repudiate this kind of nonsense, to make it clear that these are NOT "our stupid people".

I too have wondered how many of these idiots are plants from the other side. Other movements have been plagued with false plants ginning up negative stereotypes to give the legitimate movment a bad name.
 
The right to carry and common sense are joined at the hip but some folks don`t understand that.

Nothing to do with the right carry. Consider, when I'm in "uniform" I have a little holster on my belt for a pair of pliers. From the truck stop on I-65 to the school on the east side of town nobody is going to think twice about my having the things on my hip. If I pull them out and start unbolting things with them in anyplace in town I can rightfully expect someone to complain about me having them.

By the same token if I carry my great grandfather's old carbine in town none of the locals are likely to give it a second thought. If I load it and start working the action even the most understanding of those that know me are likely to think I'm planning on being less than a nice Catholic girl. At that point the reasonable person would assume I have stopped carrying and escalated to using. I have no right to use one without good and just cause.
 
As I said in another thread - be sitting in a movie theater getting ready to watch Batman with your kid. A man dressed as the Joker comes into the theater and engages in that behavior.

Do you get ready to shoot him or stand up and yell: Hip, Hip, Hurray for the RKBA?

Your call.
 
Open carry of long guns (uncased and unslung and with closed action) in relatively crowded public places is straight moronic. There's no way not to sweep/muzzle people around you - you will necessarily violate one or more of the rules of gun safety. It's unacceptable, even as a political stunt. Guns aren't political props. Guns are serious business. Gun people need to treat them seriously - not just because it will help non-gunners to trust us, but because it is the right thing to do.
 
he then loaded the shotgun and pumped it in front of witnesses, creating a breach of the peace.

I'm surprised this didn't win a brandishing charge to be honest.

Are these folks known 2A activists in the local area? Plenty of folks here who have open carried long guns (scores of them at our annual 2A march at the State Capitol, including inside the Capitol building) but not once have I heard of someone handling their firearm or publicly chambering a round! Any possibility this is someone trying to make a scene with the intent of getting a law passed/changed?
 
This is cut and dry. There is no open carry in MS last I checked. If they want open carry, they should lobby their legislature, not break the law.
 
Remember this when walmart puts up no guns signs, and makes a public statement saying they don't want guns in their stores. Sometimes it's hard to blame them after they have repeated incidents of stupidity.

To me it's simple, if what he did was legal and people don't like it, change the law. If what he did was illegal, then charge him.

Then the question becomes exactly what part of what he did should be illegal. And that can become complicated.
What exactly should be illegal?
: open carry of a long gun?
: open carry of a loaded long gun?
: maybe clambering an OC'd long gun?
I mean really, where do we believe the line should be drawn?

And I know many people who will say something to the effect of "it should be legal, but you shouldn't do it." That doesn't make sense to me either, what's the point of that exactly? If you say it should be legal, then get upset when someone does it that doesn't seem consistent to me.



This is one of those few areas where I really can see two legitimate arguments.

EDIT:

This is cut and dry. There is no open carry in MS last I checked. If they want open carry, they should lobby their legislature, not break the law.
According to opencarry.org open carry is legal in MS, not sure if it includes long guns.
http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=261
 
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"Our response should be to repudiate them and vilify the behavior."

The response here was clearly to repudiate and vilify open carry (again, still). Because manipulating ammunition into firing position in a weapon in public is exactly the same as keeping a holstered handgun on your hip or slung rifle on your back as you go about your business.

"I'm surprised this didn't win a brandishing charge to be honest."
This is because the police chief wanted to give the impression his hands were tied and could do nothing to stop open carriers from engaging in threatening behavior. That's why his criticism of the open carry laws has been stronger than that of this individual. Brandishing charges absolutely apply here, since the man was in public and engaging in what any reasonable person or officer would construe as rude or threatening behavior (which is why they felt compelled to arrest him in the first place) with a weapon.

"§ 97-37-19. Deadly weapons; exhibiting in rude, angry, or threatening manner.
If any person, having or carrying any dirk, dirk-knife, sword, sword-cane, or any deadly weapon, or other weapon the carrying of which concealed is prohibited, shall, in the presence of three or more persons, exhibit the same in a rude, angry, or threatening manner, not in necessary self-defense, or shall in any manner unlawfully use the same in any fight or quarrel, the person so offending, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined in a sum not exceeding five hundred dollars or be imprisoned in the county jail not exceeding three months, or both. In prosecutions under this section it shall not be necessary for the affidavit or indictment to aver, nor for the state to prove on the trial, that any gun, pistol, or other firearm was charged, loaded, or in condition to be discharged."

2010 Mississippi Code TITLE 97 - CRIMES Chapter 35 - Crimes Against Public Peace and Safety. 97-35-7 - Disorderly conduct
"(i) Act or do or refrain from acting or doing as ordered, requested or commanded by said officer to avoid any breach of the peace at or near the place of issuance of such order, request or command, shall be guilty of disorderly conduct, which is made a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, such person or persons shall be punished by a fine of not more than Five Hundred Dollars ($500.00) or imprisonment in the county jail for not more than six (6) months, or by both such fine and imprisonment."

Basically, disturbing the peace is when you brandish in front of an officer. Worth mentioning that every.single.last other item in that statute specifically pertains to punishing protestors for refusing police commands ("go on, boy.") MS is apparently not very tolerant of civil rights demonstrations, even to this day (something all activists should keep in mind before planning events there). Probably why the penalty appears to be double that for actively threatening someone with a deadly weapon (I would submit the proper way to rectify the situation is to bring DC charges down below brandishing, not the other way around as the police obviously desire). Notably, there is a carve-out for breast feeding, of all things (circa 2006, after a bunch of public protests, apparently...)

TCB
 
While a brandishing charge would have been appropriate, OUR response should be to denounce this dolt AND praise all responsible gun owners that behave in a mature and respectable manner while carrying, either openly or concealed.
 
While a brandishing charge would have been appropriate, OUR response should be to denounce this dolt AND praise all responsible gun owners that behave in a mature and respectable manner while carrying, either openly or concealed.
+1 [emoji4]
 
A properly cased or properly holstered gun is immune from the "safe direction" rule since it can not be made to discharge while cased/holstered.

An uncased long gun is still subject to the safe direction rule, and there really isn't any safe direction in a store.
 
Open carry of rifles and shotguns is permitted

To clarify DeepSouth's understanding of the legality of open carry of rifles and shotguns:

Mississippi Attorney General Jim Hood offered these opinions on June 13, 2013 about the Open Carry Law.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/agopinions/MSAGOpinionOnOpenCarry.pdf

Open carry of rifles and shotguns is permitted, but may have some exceptions as on educational property and those exceptions may be exempted by having an enhanced permit or by law.
 
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Folks,

Don't get distracted by the law on carry in MS. The guy was legal to carry a long gun openly, but what he did by cycling the action in front of people was the behavior of an idiot who's only purpose was to frighten people instead of educate them. He's an enemy of the 2A, whether intentionally or through stupidity.
 
Open carry of both handguns and long guns is legal in Mississippi. I've never seen anyone carrying a long gun in town other than at some form of protest. The property owner could ask them to leave at any time and they would be obliged to, under threat of trespass. Quite a few stores that I am familiar with have signs forbidding open carry but allowing concealed carry with permit.
 
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