Open letter to the THR community...

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This debate has now been rendered moot. The Mexican illegals have just announced that they are going to strike on May 1st not go to work and shut this country down.

The internet will probably not work
Congress will not work (same as always)
All stores across the USA will be closed
All home construction in USA will be delayed by 1 hr (actual work loss time)
No gas available
There is a chance the Sun will not work…so just darkness

Or Not
I always have liked living on the edge so I think I will take a chance and just do normal things on May 1st.
 
I just want people that I have to interact with, on a daily, in MY OWN country to speak my language. I don't think that is too much to ask, and it doesn't take 3 yrs to learn english.
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Shall we discuss that over a bowl of pho?

The idea that English is necessary is fear based, ridiculous, and highly amusing.
 
Jammer, do you have any idea how hard it is to get a decent medical history from a non-English speaking person at 2 A.M. in the emergency department, when no interpretor is available?

It might not be what you call necessary, but not being able to speak
English in that situation results in more tests, and possibly a bad outcome or even death.
 
Jammer Six

"You don't know how many illegal immigrants pay taxes"

I thought the number was zero.

Please enlighten me. How do illegals file State and Federal income tax forms? I thought you needed a legal SS#.

Serious question…not joking. I would like to know how this works.
 
oh, what the heck... toss another log on the fire

I did not read the entire thread (I do TRY to have a life outside of cyberspace:D ), so I'll apologize if this has already been brought up. I wanted to mention that a large number of illegals are from Canada and Europe. They don't often draw attention because they blend in (read that as "they're Caucasian"). I guess if everyone is always required to show paperwork that they have a right ot be in the country, that would be fair... but then again, don't we often argue about that concept in terms of whether we should have a right to bear arms and carry concealed? Hmm.:D
 
Those sons and daughters everyone here is so afraid of contain the same potential that every American does, and has the same chance of achieving that potential. And they will be legal, native born, full-fledged American citizens, from their first breath. Just like you.
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In an ideal kumbaya world maybe. But there are many much more powerful factors than that. They might have the potential, but what would likely happen is that they grow in their ethnic enclaves, learn how to work the system, refuse to learn English, systematically fail at school, and become another entitlement-based welfare ethnic underclass that eats peanuts off the hands of leftists, statists, and socialists, voting consistently against our civil liberties.

If half of what you want comes to pass, you will be weeping in 20 years... Unless you are a multimillionaire who hopes to buy himself off by retaining expensive lawyers and living in gated communities, all you support digs your own grave.
 
I wanted to mention that a large number of illegals are from Canada and Europe.
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"Large" number as compared to what? After you fix the 4 foot hole in the boat you worry about the 2 inch hole in the boat..... It's still a hole but it won't sink you nearly as fast.
 
I don't think it takes 3 generations to assimilate. I'm first generation American.
I run into a lot of Spanish speaking people when they asked where I'm from I say "I'm American I was born here, my parents were born in Cuba." I don't own a Cuban flag I wouldn't dare fly one above a U.S. flag and if i saw a Cuban flag over an upside down American flag well I would grab a firearm and then call the police.


Now I have a blue collar job and I have done A/C work on new construction. I've met a lot of illegals they can barely speak decent spanish most of the time. Most of them can't read or write and when I ask about where they come from they say the jungle, no cars, no schools, no power.


Legal immigrants have to meet certain levels of literacy that are beyond the average illegal.


That's why you see them voting for all these socialists in their countries they hear the promises and that is what they believe. Even if they could get the national paper they probably couldn't read it to find out the truth.


Also in their countries where there is no middle class and very little way to leave the poor class they try to stick it to the rich any chance they get which is why they vote for socialism in the first place. Which is why when you go to Mexico if you have trouble with the law you will have to bribe the police they want to stick it to the rich white yanquis.
 
This debate has now been rendered moot. The Mexican illegals have just announced that they are going to strike on May 1st not go to work and shut this country down.
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Well, that should solidy their international socialist worker credentials and tick off any remaining Americans.
 
I agree with Longeyes

The date of May 1st and in addtion to a strike shows how little these illegals understand the USA.

This is just one article on the net. I actually heard about the strike on Fox News first.

Hispanic groups in the U.S. are planning a major boycott of American life dubbed a ”day without Latinos” to protest proposed legislation that would criminalize illegal immigration.
Mexican American Political Association (MAPA) President Nativo Lopez, one of the organizers of the recent protests in Los Angeles that saw at least 500,000 people take to the streets, said the May 1 "day without Latinos” would send a stern message to Washington.
"We are looking forward to a major action in all large U.S. cities where immigrants make up a significant proportion of the workforce,” Lopez told Agence France-Presse
 
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Please enlighten me. How do illegals file State and Federal income tax forms? I thought you needed a legal SS#.
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No.

It takes A social security number.

Of the right number of digits, with the dashes in the right places.

It helps if the numbers are different.

Follow these simple guidelines, and your government will be happy to cash the check.

THEY don't file any forms- which is exactly my point. They never file for benefits, or tax returns. The government gets to keep all of it.

You don't suppose the politicians KNOW about this, and think about it when they're deciding these questions, do you? :cool:
 
Thanks Jammer Six

Now I understand...they don't pay taxes.

Of course unless you can document any cases where illegals are paying taxes the way you discribed.

Wait, now I get it. They don't file forms so you can't prove they gave money freely to the goverment. Now I really understand.

I sent in a million dollars last year with a bogus SS# (or ITIN#) just to help our country...didn't want any credit.

One more minor point. If the Goverment gets to keep all of "it"...what is "it" if they sent in zero for "it"

Can I not file taxes and tell the govenment you said they are lucky to keep "it".

Are you saying people should use illegal SS# or ITIN numbers for filing?
 
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MadMag ~

I used to work for a large-ish agricultural business. Here's how it works: an employee comes in and says his brother would like a job too. Boss asks, "He speak English? Habla ingles?" Employee says, "No. But he has papers." Boss says, "Okay, have him come in tomorrow."

Tomorrow rolls around. In comes the new employee, carrying his papers which were probably hot off the press. But they look valid enough. Boss hires him, notes down the SSN and all the other details.

Employee works for a year. During this time, his wages are attached for taxes -- just like yours are. Withholding, SSN, worker's comp. Adds up to a sizeable bite out of a minimum wage job.

April 15 rolls around. At the income level these guys work, they won't need to pay fed income tax in any case, but they won't give the game away by filing exempt from withholding. Their kids would each be eligible for the $1k earned-income credit, so they'd probably get more back than they paid in if they filed. Doesn't matter, such employees don't usually file. They just plan to become someone else, in some other location, if the IRS sends a letter.

Since the employee doesn't file to collect his return, the government keeps every cent of withholding that was paid in through his paycheck over the course of the year -- money which definitely would have come back to an American citizen working the same job.

Lots of reasons to fear or hate illegals. But a lot of them do pay a lot of taxes that they wouldn't pay if they were legal.

pax
 
Here in Idaho, I have never seen a farmer pay his workers in cash. The Bank at which the farmer got his operating loan, demands a full accounting of all monies used by the farmer. Every penny is accounted for. Every worker is given a check, and on the check stub are the deductions. Listed just like yours or mine. Fed W/H; FICA; Medicare, and State W/H.

Over in CA, there is a movement going on to inform these illegals of their rights. In 1996, Congress approved a plan whereby a worker may get a Taxpayers Identification Number (TIN) and file their taxes with that. The SSN they used to get hired isn't crossed referenced. Against the law, you see. So these illegals either let the Goveernment keep all the taxes withheld or they file a return and get back their fair share. All perfectly legal.

Many file this way, as it establishes their residency for later when the apply for an actual green card.

More illegals pay taxes than do not. Less of them actually file, however.
 
Most illegal alien workers 'round 'bout my neck of the woods are paid in cash. No income, FICA, or medicare taxes.

Employer pulls up to where the "good Catholic boys" collect & has the requisite number hop into his pickup truck bed. Employer provides transport to/from jobsite(s) & usually lunch, in addition to wages.

For those illegals that work in more formal settings, fed.gov can easily ferret out which workers are illegal by comparing SSNs & TINs. They have done so in the past and have informed the employers. Fed.gov doesn't do that much, anymore, for some reason.
 
As I said, illegal aliens get free medical treatment and other welfare support without paying their way.

Stories about some farmer that tries to do the right thing does not impress me. Also, using bogus papers does not impress me...even if the end result is in these cases the government gets some money.

You have to apply to get a legal ITIN...not just make up numbers.

Illegal aliens do not pay to support the system they use.

Now, if you guys that support illegals can get the government to allow all of us to operate using bogus papers or picking one employer out of many that might send in some tax money...then go for it!

I lived in El Paso and worked in Juarez. I paid Mexican & USA taxes. Very formal...no bogus papers.

El Paso has some of the highest property taxes in the US....know why? Becasue they have to get the money from property owners. Thats why no State income tax....won't work because to many illegals do not pay tax....so get the support from the only people you can tax...property owners.
 
Let's posit that illegals pay taxes. Problem in a nutshell: They don't pay ENOUGH taxes. Any illegal with dependents is taking out of society far, far more than he could ever hope to pay in. Schooling his kids at $10K a head means a steady, hefty rise in local property taxes alone. Importing millions upon millions of low-paid, low-skill workers means one thing: a vastly increased welfare state, with all that implies for fiscal solvency and civil liberties.

If that's what you want, go for it.
 
THEY don't file any forms- which is exactly my point. They never file for benefits, or tax returns. The government gets to keep all of it.

You don't suppose the politicians KNOW about this, and think about it when they're deciding these questions, do you?
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"THEY" also includes dishonest employers of illegals, who may withhold taxes but never deposit said taxes with the government. If the employer deposit taxes withheld under a bogus SSN, the Social Security Administration sends the employer a letter advising of same.
 
For those illegals that work in more formal settings, fed.gov can easily ferret out which workers are illegal by comparing SSNs & TINs. They have done so in the past and have informed the employers. Fed.gov doesn't do that much, anymore, for some reason.
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Because pretty much the entire Georgia and Nebraska Congressional delegation chewed on their hindquarters after they made several attempts to clean up the problem in the meatpacking and onion-picking industries. The man who came up with the plan decided to take early retirement and future bureaucrats learned that just because a Congressman says he is concerned about illegal immigration doesn't mean he wants something done about it.
 
America, si; Bush, no!

What we are witnessing is the de facto dissolution of Congress. Elections in the fall are not going to fix the systemic problem we now have with our Government. All they doing is de-legitimizing themselves.

Most people on this forum well understood how we'd gotten off the tracks by '00. That is precisely why many of us voted for George Bush and a Republican Congress--as an antidote to a disease that had grown virulent. We've seen where that has gotten us in an age of lies and betrayal.

I voted twice for Bush. I now believe he needs to be removed from office--if only to show the politicians that We the People are still in charge. Don't tell me we need to stand firm in a time of global terrorism, etc. There are other people out there, with tougher, sounder, less compromised strategies who can run our military operations. I happen to believe that Bush didn't do anything that special in dealing with the very real threats we face and that his model for solving the problem is seriously flawed. Nation-building abroad and nation-destruction at home is not an acceptable program. We are going to need to look outside the box, as the cliche goes, to find our way here. The American people need to make clear to the poltroons in the political establishment that we are NOT going to stand for any legislation that destroys the American nation.
 
I will make this my final input and response for a while. I normally don’t post that much and do not want to abuse the privilege.

No one should expect me to take feel comfortably when someone says don’t worry…since you do not know what taxes illegals pay or do not pay then everything is Ok. No one would accept that answer in business or their personal finance.

I know that in any area that has heavy illegal workers the tax base always goes up much faster than the national average. That is because illegals are not sharing the tax load. When you see the Governor of Arizona say that they cannot sustain the tax load for welfare programs (not just border patrol), then you see what will happen in your area when you have enough illegal workers. Always works that way. Also, I lived in California…same story.

Now I do not have what I would call cultural fear. I worked most of my life supporting and working in factories in Mexico. I am retired, but some of my best and respected friends are in Torreon Mexico (not a border town). I just want all to pay their share of the tax burden.

Also, I feel strange when they talk about the jobs that only Mexicans will work. I worked most of those kinds of jobs in my younger days. I did go on to get a higher education and retired as an operations manager. Which means I am expert on everything. Also, worked for a 1st Sgt. in the Army that did not know I was not supposed to do dirty work.

Anyway, my wife likes this forum because it lets me blow off steam without bothering her.
 
MadMag ~

I wasn't trying to "impress" you. I was only explaining how the system works in the business office of a large agri-business. If the facts interfere with your preconceptions, by all means, feel free to throw the facts out the window and go with emoting instead.

A low-income American family actually pays very little in federal income taxes -- often none. Low income families with kids are eligible for a $1000/kid tax credit, which means the government pays them at least that much money back no matter how much they paid in or didn't pay in.

So a Mexican family crosses the border and the parents go to work here. The boss pays them regular paychecks with a fake SSN, and they leave the their withholdings in the system rather than taking it out as an American family would. Or farmer pays them under the table, and so their withholding never gets into the system at all -- but then, neither do they withdraw that $1000/kid that the American family would.

In either case, that illegal Mexican family is less of a burden on the system than the American family in identical circumstances.

The problem isn't the illegals, folks. The problem is a huge, confiscatory tax structure, heavy with dead weight and getting worse every year. The illegals are only the tip of that iceberg.

pax
 
A low-income American family actually pays very little in federal income taxes -- often none. Low income families with kids are eligible for a $1000/kid tax credit, which means the government pays them at least that much money back no matter how much they paid in or didn't pay in.

So a Mexican family crosses the border and the parents go to work here. The boss pays them regular paychecks with a fake SSN, and they leave the their withholdings in the system rather than taking it out as an American family would. Or farmer pays them under the table, and so their withholding never gets into the system at all -- but then, neither do they withdraw that $1000/kid that the American family would.

In either case, that illegal Mexican family is less of a burden on the system than the American family in identical circumstances.

The problem isn't the illegals, folks. The problem is a huge, confiscatory tax structure, heavy with dead weight and getting worse every year. The illegals are only the tip of that iceberg.
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Well put, and that is EXACTLY why this whole rush to legalize millions of illegals goes beyond foolishness to outright treason. All it will do is HUGELY expand the social welfare establishment of the United States, gutting any vestige of a free Republic in the process and putting the last nails in the coffin of fiscal solvency.

If this goes through we will either become a socialist natiion within one generation or we will experience militant secession, along with political fragmentation and turmoil.
 
The problem isn't the illegals, folks. The problem is a huge, confiscatory tax structure, heavy with dead weight and getting worse every year. The illegals are only the tip of that iceberg.
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More to the point, the problem is the welfare state supported by that tax structure. Stop giving them things, and they'll no longer be a problem.
 
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