Open letter to the THR community...

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cry me a river

Will someone tell this alleged grown-up that the illegal immigration debate is not about HIM? He's another "offended" American? Sheesh. I'd call this childish if it were not outright disingenuous. The last thing I'd do with a Bush is to accuse him of a "thoughtful policy for the long term." My view? They can all go live in Mexico.


http://www.latimes.com/services/site/premium/access-registered.intercept
From the Los Angeles Times
Florida Gov. Bush Calls Tone of Immigration Debate `Hurtful'
He accuses some fellow Republicans of misusing the issue for short-term political gain.
By Peter Wallsten
Times Staff Writer

April 5, 2006

WASHINGTON — Accusing politicians of "pounding their chests" on immigration for short-term political gain, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush said Tuesday that the tone of the debate had been "hurtful" to him and his Mexican-born wife, Columba.

Bush, the younger brother of President Bush, reserved some of his sharpest criticism for conservatives in his own Republican Party, calling it "just plain wrong" to charge illegal immigrants with a felony, as a provision passed by the Republican-led House would do. He also opposed "penalizing the children of illegal immigrants" by denying them U.S. citizenship, an idea backed by some conservatives but not included in the legislation.

"My wife came here legally, but it hurts her just as it hurts me when people give the perception that all immigrants are bad," the Florida governor wrote in an e-mail exchange with The Times.

Gov. Bush has generally avoided injecting himself into national political fights, and he rarely invokes his soft-spoken wife of 32 years in such a public way. But his comments reflect the concern among many Republicans that calls by conservatives for an immigrant crackdown risk alienating Latino voters.

His brother is attempting to navigate a growing rift among Republicans over what to do with the estimated 12 million illegal immigrants in the country. The president has proposed a guest-worker program but has not said what should happen to those already here illegally.

Florida is home to millions of residents who were born in other countries. And the Bush brothers, in Florida and Texas, where the president was governor, have been popular with Latino voters.

Both have long advocated open immigration laws, putting them at odds with many in their party.

Longtime friends and associates say the president's relationship with his brother's family, along with his experiences living and working in Texas, contributed to his views on immigration.

The Senate is debating immigration proposals this week, and White House allies are beginning to speak out more forcefully on the issue.

Republican National Committee Chairman Ken Mehlman used a speech Tuesday to the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce to extol the contributions of immigrants.

In his e-mail, Gov. Bush chastised both politicians and the media for being simplistic on immigration, and he lauded his brother for seeking a civil tone.

"The cumulative effect of some politicians pounding their chests about immigration is hurtful to both of us," he wrote, referring to himself and his brother. "I fear they do so for current political gain at the expense of thoughtful policy over the long term."

Jeb Bush pointed to the political damage wrought 12 years ago by California's Proposition 187, in which the state's voters backed a plan to strip illegal immigrants of public benefits. The initiative was pushed by then-Gov. Pete Wilson, a Republican. Some analysts have since blamed that campaign for a backlash among Latino voters that has made California reliably Democratic in national elections.

Gov. Bush wrote that Wilson "fell prey" to the short-term political temptations. "I know he felt he was doing the right thing, but matters are worse now and the Republican Party is now the minority party in California," Bush wrote.

Wilson, in a recent interview, rejected the theory that Prop. 187 turned California to the left — arguing that, instead, he had performed especially well with female voters who later abandoned the GOP over abortion.

Referring to Republicans who shied away from cracking down on illegal immigrants as "gutless," Wilson said they were "intimidated by the fear that they will be charged with racism."

For the Florida governor, though, immigration is a personal matter. He met his wife during a high school exchange program in Mexico, and the two married when he was 21. They settled in Miami in 1980 in part because she would feel comfortable in a heavily Latin city, home to Cubans, Mexicans and thousands of other Spanish-speaking immigrants.

The governor speaks the language fluently. His son, George P. Bush, has cited his Latino heritage in campaign appearances for his father and uncle and is considered an heir to the family political dynasty.

"Columba and I watch the news early in the morning and in the evenings," Bush wrote in the late-night e-mail exchange. "The cumulative effect of the coverage is that immigrants are bad and hurting our country. The coverage is black and white, good and bad, without the nuances that the coverage deserves."

The Florida governor has said he does not intend to run for president in 2008. But he has been mentioned as a potential running mate for another likely candidate, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.).

In his e-mail, Gov. Bush endorsed the idea of a broad guest-worker program encompassing the kinds of low-wage workers sought by farms and factories as well as high-tech professionals from places such as India.

Like his brother, he offered no specificity on how to treat current immigrants and whether they should be granted a path to citizenship.

"The focus should be on protecting our borders rather than these piling on provisions that are punitive to many who have made a great contribution to our country," he wrote. "Along with that, the focus should be on a guest worker program and a means to deal with the millions of long term undocumented workers….

"Frankly," he added, "I also believe we should open up legal immigration to the qualified scientists, innovators, entrepreneurs and others who can additionally add value to our great country."
 
Longtime friends and associates say the president's relationship with his brother's family, along with his experiences living and working in Texas, contributed to his views on immigration.

I would think money contributes more to their view on illegal immigration.:rolleyes:
 
Relationships & Experience

"Longtime friends and associates say jfruser's relationship with his county's & school district's tax collecting agencies, along with his experiences living and working in Texas, contributed to his views on immigration."

Maybe GWB & I differ because I don't hire illegals to cut my lawn, raise my children, or do my other dirty jobs and I don't let the employers of illegal aliens whisper in my ear & place their hand in my pocket to fondle my...wallet.
 
"My wife came here legally, but it hurts her just as it hurts me when people give the perception that all immigrants are bad," the Florida governor wrote in an e-mail exchange with The Times.
This statement is not really as dumb as it sounds. The purpose/agenda of Jeb and his fellow pro immigration travelers is to obfuscate the difference between managed legal and unrestricted illegal immigration. They are not the same thing. It's an attempt to spin perception over reality by blurring the line.
 
/*And are you willing to accept the inevitable changes in society that will result from a closed border patrolled by a large force of guards with orders to shoot to kill? */

Moreso than I would be willing to accept the inevitable changes in society that will result when everyone is free to choose which laws they are exempted from following, and the fallout that comes when one can openly and publicly break laws for their own personal gain, free from consequences.
 
Moreso than I would be willing to accept the inevitable changes in society that will result when everyone is free to choose which laws they are exempted from following, and the fallout that comes when one can openly and publicly break laws for their own personal gain, free from consequences.
No worries.

Soon, it will be legal, and this will all go away. They'll be able to walk right across the border, just like a white Canadian.

I mean, it's just the legality you guys are yipping about, right?

Make them all legal, and you all have no more problem, right? :cool:
 
Jammer why exactly is it right for Mexico to defend its borders
and enforce laws against illegal immigration but it is wrong for
the US to do so?



--Travis--
 
.... the Mexican constitution includes the following restrictions:

Pursuant to Article 33, "Foreigners may not in any way participate in the political affairs of the country." This ban applies, among other things, to participation in demonstrations and the expression of opinions in public about domestic politics like those much in evidence in Los Angeles, New York and elsewhere in recent days.

Equal employment rights are denied to immigrants, even legal ones. Article 32: "Mexicans shall have priority over foreigners under equality of circumstances for all classes of concessions and for all employment, positions, or commissions of the Government in which the status of citizenship is not indispensable."

Jobs for which Mexican citizenship is considered "indispensable" include, pursuant to Article 32, bans on foreigners, immigrants, and even naturalized citizens of Mexico serving as military officers, Mexican-flagged ship and airline crew, and chiefs of seaports and airports.

Article 55 denies immigrants the right to become federal lawmakers. A Mexican congressman or senator must be "a Mexican citizen by birth." Article 91 further stipulates that immigrants may never aspire to become cabinet officers as they are required to be Mexican by birth. Article 95 says the same about Supreme Court justices.

In accordance with Article 130, immigrants - even legal ones - may not become members of the clergy, either.

Foreigners, to say nothing of illegal immigrants, are denied fundamental property rights. For example, Article 27 states, "Only Mexicans by birth or naturalization and Mexican companies have the right to acquire ownership of lands, waters, and their appurtenances, or to obtain concessions for the exploitation of mines or of waters."

Article 11 guarantees federal protection against "undesirable aliens resident in the country." What is more, private individuals are authorized to make citizen's arrests. Article 16 states, "In cases of flagrante delicto, any person may arrest the offender and his accomplices, turning them over without delay to the nearest authorities." In other words, Mexico grants its citizens the right to arrest illegal aliens and hand them over to police for prosecution. Imagine the Minutemen exercising such a right!

The Mexican constitution states that foreigners - not just illegal immigrants - may be expelled for any reason and without due process. According to Article 33, "the Federal Executive shall have the exclusive power to compel any foreigner whose remaining he may deem inexpedient to abandon the national territory immediately and without the necessity of previous legal action."

The Bottom Line

As the immigration debate in the Senate moves into a decisive phase this week, legislators who believe America's southern border must be secured, the Nation's existing immigration laws enforced and illegal aliens not rewarded with permanent residency and a direct path to citizenship are being sharply criticized and, in some cases, defamed as bigots and xenophobes. Yet, even their maximalist positions generally pale in comparison with the treatment authorized by the Mexican constitution.

So the next time such legislators - and the majority of Americans for whom they speak - are assaulted by Mexican officials, undocumented aliens waving Mexican flags in mass demonstrations here in the United States, clergy and self-described humanitarians, businessmen and other advocates of illegal immigration ask them this: Would they favor having the U.S. impose the same restrictions on immigrants - legal and illegal - that Mexico imposes on their counterparts there?

Nothing of the kind is in the cards, of course. Nor should it be. Legal immigration and the opportunity for foreign investors and other nationals legitimately to contribute to this country are not only one of its hallmarks; they are among the reasons for its greatness.

Still, we should not allow the hypocrisy of others' treatment of undocumented aliens in their countries to induce us to refrain from taking effective steps to prevent further illegal immigration: by building a fence along our southern border; by enforcing immigration laws in the workplace and elsewhere; and by discouraging more such violations - with potentially grave national security implications - by dealing effectively with those who have already broken those laws by coming here without permission.

*************************************

Mexico defends its borders, its people, its culture, and its laws.

WHY DON'T WE?


--Travis--
 
No J6, it's not just about legality. There's a lot more involved.
Biker
 
Quote:
Jammer why exactly is it right for Mexico to defend its borders
and enforce laws against illegal immigration but it is wrong for
the US to do so?


You want to be like Mexico?

Evasion.

Simple question, answer it.

If you assert that it is wrong for us to expect the law
to be enforced it's up to YOU to justify it.

The US constitution demands the Federal Government to defend the States against foreign invasion, and I don't see how 20 million illegal aliens already here, and 10,000 new border jumpers a day is anything other than an invasion.

Is there any justification for allowing illegal aliens to be here, other than
the hypothetical benefits of cheap labor to be exploited?

Twenty-first century neo-slavery, is what it is.

I think it's morally indefensible.

--Travis--
 
I had to sit back and think and realize that i'm not so much upset that illegals don't pay income taxes.....

I'm upset that they are killing our economy. They get paid their tax free wage (some of them) and then run their money back to their country. Very little of their wages are being spent here in the US. Why? Because we all know that the all mighty dollar is worth much much more in Mexico then is is here.
I personally think that is a much greater issue than just not paying taxes.
 
Quote: just like a white Canadian.

So Jammer, all this time you have really been talking about racism.

Anyway, the fact remains. Any community that has high illegal influx will always...always have very high property and local taxes to support the welfare system that illegals get for free. A dime saved in labor will cost you thousands of dollars in wefare support. Simply look at the models in Arizona, Texas, and California.

I have said before. Why do you think the Governor of Arizona has said the people of Arizona connot sustain the cost for welfare support of illegals.
 
Moderator Note

I hate putting on the moderator hat in a thread I've participated in -- and especially this contentious one! -- but hear this: There will be no more personal jabs in this thread.

Happens again, the thread gets closed ... and the person who did it, banned.

pax
 
If we all want to change the influx of illegal immigrants in this country, here's how we do it.

a) Everybody who was born here or has legally immigrated needs to show up at a Home Depot in California, Texas or Arizona, at around 5 or 6 am. Then, you need to wait until ANOTHER person who was born here or immigrated legally comes by. Then, bargain yourself down to doing hard manual labor for the lowest price of the group. Instant success! If we take the jobs away, then they'll stop coming!

b) Go to every ethnic food restaurant (Asian, Mexican, Russian, Greek, Thai, Indian, European, etc.) and volunteer to clean the toilets, slop out the fryers, mop, sweep, take abuse from customers. Advise that you will do all this for a couple bucks a day, or, alternatively, enough food to take home and feed your family (when you get home at about 1 or 2 am in the morning, of course). Again:Instant success! If we take the jobs away, then they'll stop coming!

c) Go to the local mega-farms. You know, the ones that pay you like 2 cents a bushel. Take all the jobs from all the damn bastards who are taking the jobs from hard working, red-blooded, american, Hurah, true blue sons-of-bitches who were BORN here (nevermind that 99 percent of ALL our ancestors came here---ILLEGALLY) and pick strawberries for 2 cents a bushel. Instant success! If we take the jobs away, then they'll stop coming!





Give us your poor, your tired, your hungry... But only if they're white and look pretty and speak english.
 
Double posting to say this:

My original post is inflamatory and ill-thought out. I have a lot of pent-up aggression on this subject because it seems so... helpless.

Illegal Immigrants in this country DO contribute to the society as a whole. A reform IS needed... Don't give welfare to Illegals. BUT... If they can show that they are working to better themselves, it should be taken into consideration and a temp or perm status should be given.


My thoughts on the subject are confusing even for ME, but I believe that this country would sink without the influx of immigrants to this countrey. Legal and not. They are willing to work harder, for less, than many of our own sons and daughters.



I appologise for venting at everyone in THR, but I don't appologise for what I said.
 
We do need cheap unskilled labor. And there should be a legal way for them to provide that labor.

But we have to start with the premise that if you snuck in illegally and thumbed your nose at all the rest of us, native or immigrant, screaming "Viva la Raza!" or whining "You need me," you can go to hell.

First of all, cut off welfare and make the lazy bastards work. That'll take care of some of the cheap unskilled labor right there. Then allow "guest workers" to come in and do the rest, for a limited period of time. One year, I'd say, maximum, and you must reapply. You must be outside the country to apply, originally and for each subsequent application.

Oh, and nice use of the race card there, brokendreams.:rolleyes:
 
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