Opening a gun shop -- UPDATE: Two Years In!

[kcshooter]

Another point to be made about Bud's, and the animosity, is the pricing. It is very hard for shops to compete with them.

There are others, cheaper than dirt, able ammo, but Bud's is one of the biggest and most well known.

They are bad for businesses, but good for customers.

Therefore, dealers hate them, and buyers love them.


But, they are a factor of today's business, they aren't going away, and you can either find a way to deal with it or die trying.

 

[sawdeanz]

Wow I got through 7 pages before I got tired, anyway if the op is still here this is what I like.

My favorite store is nicer than any in the area. I probably paid a little more for my gun than I needed to but he was also the only place that stocked cz's, so that's where I bought it. I was also very impressed at how patient they were, I was obviously a new gun owner, and a very indicisive one.

2. Carry used guns

3. Almost every place I've been to besides the big chains let's you handle long guns freely, which made the place feel super welcoming.

4. Ammo. I can't believe more places don't have surplus ammo for maks and mosins

5. For the range-weekly informal competitions are cool. The one I go to has an informal steel plate match every week, course they lose a lot of lights that way so idk
.
6. Hours. There is one place in my town that is open only from 630 pm till 10. I'm not saying do that, but why not work a normal 8 hour day and just shift it, who goes gun shopping first thing in the morning.

My advice would be to research. From what I understand many businesses hire researchrs or consultants to find the best location for their store. Obviously transfer prices vary, but don't forget many pawn shops will do them, and that makes sence since they stock few guns.

Btw where in florida? I want to come visit.

 

[jrdolall]

In the last year and a half I've bought roughly 50 guns. 2 required a ffl transfer

I have bought 16 guns in the past year. One required a transfer. The others were bought at 4 different stores, all of them what we refer to as LGS. The exception was the 10/22 I got from Wally world. I have never bought a gun from Bud's.

I buy ammo online about 2-3 times per year because i need 5.45 for my AK74 and all the local guys are either out or want $8 a box for Tula so I get 10-20 boxes or a bulk tin online. I have bought some reloads in 9mm online. Other than that I buy $200-$300 per month in ammo from LGS as well as mags, holsters, etc.

Go ahead and run me off Mr LGS. I can buy all of this stuff online. if you don't think the Bud's of the world are here to stay then you are mistaken. Maybe after you close you can get a job at Montgomery Ward or Circuit City.

 

[fallout mike]

Or the walmart sporting goods section.

 

[NoVA Shooter]

They are bad for businesses, but good for customers.

I wouldn't exactly go that far. They are bad for LGSs but they are good for manufacturers, delivery companies, etc...

 

[oneounceload]

Go ahead and run me off Mr LGS. I can buy all of this stuff online. if you don't think the Bud's of the world are here to stay then you are mistaken

Of course, if you run off the LGS, getting those guns from Bud's can become a tad more difficult.

Amazing how many folks scream about supporting local business, industrial plants, etc. so the jobs don't go overseas, but will nickel and dime an LGS out of business to buy from somewhere out of their local area - the analogy is the same.

When the only place you have left to buy from is a Bud's - what then?

 

[kcshooter]

but will nickel and dime an LGS out of business

We aren't talking about nickles and dimes. My last one was $120 less at Bud's than the quote from the LGS, and that was a gun that cost me under $400.

If the LGS was within $50, I wouldn't have bought from Bud's.
But if you think I'm going to pay over a hundred bucks more so the LGS stays in business, you're nuts.
If they can't be competitive, they don't deserve to be open.

 

[fallout mike]

What then? I will use several of the arrogant statements here to use as an example of why this happened. Also he did not say anything about running off the lgs.

 

[NoVA Shooter]

To the OP, my top list for a LGS:

1) Good staff.
2) Competitive pricing. You don’t have to be the lowest, you don’t have to match Bud's, but at least be in the ball park. I know this will differ from person to person, but based on my option and from what a lot of other posters have indicated, I think if you are within $25 to $50 (out the door), for a $500 gun, you stand a good chance of getting their business over Buds.
3) Be willing to haggle, trade, or offer incentives. Offering a discount for ammo or accesories when buying a gun is small gesture that can seal a deal.
4) Clear and easily visible pricing.
5) Competitive price for any transfer. You may not like Bud's, but I might stop shopping in your store if you don’t accept transfers from them. I have no problem with you trying to talk me out of buying from
them (see number 2), but if a deal can’t be done, at least take my transfer money.

 

[Sam1911]

When the only place you have left to buy from is a Bud's - what then?

Well, that is the big question, right? Or, said a slightly less dramatic way, when the firearms sales model does finally settle in around the internet boom, what is it going to look like?

Certainly, even if all the really good local gun stores do end up closing because they can't compete, the demand for FFLs to transfer guns won't go away. In fact, it would go through the roof. Maybe that means that there are lots more FFLs who are just a receiving clerk in a bare room in a warehouse full of shipping boxes, doing $20 transfers all day. That may not sound like a romantic or profitable way to make a living, but the demand will be met.

It is entirely possible for a certain model or form of retail to become extinct, or rare at least, because something else changes in the world that makes part of that system's function unnecessary, or just too costly and redundant. (CD/record stores? News stands? Pay phones? Passenger ships?)

What that would mean for the consumer is that there might not be places around where you can go handle a lot of guns on display. Or where you can walk in and buy 300 types of ammunition, or reloading dies and hunting clothes, and guns in the same shop. The overhead which is being carried by the portion of the dealers' revenue that comes from markup on guns may no longer be there to sustain the niceties of well-appointed gun stores.

But when gun shop owners say to the consumer, "When I have to close you won't be able to transfer a gun," just rings false. As the government requires that guns be sold and transferred by a federally licensed firearms license holder, there will always be a need for such. And where there is a need someone will fill it. And the price for that service will stabilize based on factors of supply, demand, and competition just like we're dealing with here.

 

[Sam1911]

Having said the above...

I don't think it will end up as dire as all that. Look at electronics stores just as one example. There is no government requirement that folks buy a TV only from a TV dealer. Folks can buy one and have it shipped right to them (as guns should be...). That has made life more difficult for the electronics stores, and some of them have gone out of business after decades of success. However, not all have, and they won't go extinct. The successful model may become a little more stripped-down, but folks still like to go see and touch and experience things first hand. Folks still like to pick something out and take it home with them right away. Folks still like to discuss it with a salesman (for reasons that boggle MY mind, but whatever... ) So folks will pay a little more to do that.

Many won't of course, or will "abuse" the store by shopping there and then buying on line to save a buck. That very well may end up putting the stores out of business. If so, folks can STILL buy their TVs.

In the case of gun dealers, though, there's a built-in government quasi-monopoly that says there will always be a need for them. In some form. Maybe just not the old comfortable one we're used to.

 

[Sam1911]

Maybe that means that there are lots more FFLs who are just a receiving clerk in a bare room in a warehouse full of shipping boxes, doing $20 transfers all day. That may not sound like a romantic or profitable way to make a living, but the demand will be met.

And...I'll just bet that that shipping clerk in a bare room will keep a few cases of ammo on hand. Because 75% of his "drop ship" customers will want to buy some. And probably some cleaning supplies as well. Maybe some powder and bullets ... hey, wait a minute, that sounds like a LOCAL GUN STORE!

 

[oneounceload]

But when gun shop owners say to the consumer, "When I have to close you won't be able to transfer a gun," just rings false. As the government requires that guns be sold and transferred by a federally licensed firearms license holder, there will always be a need for such. And where there is a need someone will fill it. And the price for that service will stabilize based on factors of supply, demand, and competition just like we're dealing with here.

And with a stroke of a pen, they can make it mandatory that an FFL have a brick and mortar establishment, essentially putting gun sales out of business (the goal they want anyway). For all we know, it is already written into the healthcare law (like the upcoming sales tax on selling your home is)....

There will always be pawn shops - the ones around here charge $75.00 to do a transfer, Gander is $50, the local LGS is $25 - look at NJ and CA to see what can happen to transfer rates

 

[Bubba613]

A good quality well run gun shop will always have a place and will always do well.
Bud's does well not because their prices are so wonderful but because the local dealer must collect sales tax. The 5-9% difference accounts for their big advantage. If they were forced to collect sales tax for the states they sell to their business would decline probably 45%.

 

[drsfmd]

2) Competitive pricing. You don’t have to be the lowest, you don’t have to match Bud's, but at least be in the ball park. I know this will differ from person to person, but based on my option and from what a lot of other posters have indicated, I think if you are within $25 to $50 (out the door), for a $500 gun, you stand a good chance of getting their business over Buds.

So given the number of people in this thread that have expressed that one of the reasons they like Buds and other out-of-state transfers is that it allows them to duck the sales/use tax, what you are really saying is that you expect a dealer to be a solid 10% BELOW Bud's prices before taxes.

You people are totally unrealistic, and it's obvious you've never run a retail operation.

Bottom line, you are free to shop anywhere you want to shop. You are free to buy from one store or another. You're out of bounds complaining about pricing, transfer fees, etc. at any particular store. If you don't like their prices, DON'T SHOP THERE! If you are right that the prices are out of line, the market will agree with you, and that shop won't be there for long.

 

[Sam1911]

So given the number of people in this thread that have expressed that one of the reasons they like Buds and other out-of-state transfers is that it allows them to duck the sales/use tax, what you are really saying is that you expect a dealer to be a solid 10% BELOW Bud's prices before taxes.

Yep. That is truly unfair to the LGS, but it seems that's likely to change. Still, though, if it remains part of the sales "landscape" then shops will have to find ways to deal with it.

 

[Sam1911]

And with a stroke of a pen, they can make it mandatory that an FFL have a brick and mortar establishment, essentially putting gun sales out of business ...

Eh? I never said they wouldn't have a real-world shop. An office in a warehouse is a brick and mortar establishment, as long as it meets local zoning laws.

But as I was trying to say in conclusion, I don't think we're really going to see a shift that significant. Just perhaps a bit of streamlining and market shifts so the local shops become competative.

Like any business anywhere, they will compete with other outlets that provide the same product or service, or they won't last. If they don't last, someone else will find a business model that works and fills the need.

 

[fallout mike]

Bubba, I now agree with you. I think all internet sales from a business should be taxed. That would make it more level. And the way my argument has been may be misleading some people. I nearly always buy from a lgs. The only way I wont is if they can't get what I want. What am I expected to do then. I love lgs's. My last one before my move was great. They knew me by name bc I was in there several times a week and bought many guns from them. After a bit I never had to haggle with prices on used guns. My favorite salesman there would just tell me " for you the price is X." It was always 20%-30% below the sticker price.

 

[drsfmd]

Yep. That is truly unfair to the LGS, but it seems that's likely to change. Still, though, if it remains part of the sales "landscape" then shops will have to find ways to deal with it.

Of course, and the easy way to do that is to protect your profits by refusing transfers on items you carry.

It's a no brainer to me.

If you don't like the price in the case at your LGS, simply GO ELSEWHERE AND TRY TO GET IT FOR LESS. Don't expect the shop to drop their prices for you.

We price things competitively, but the sticker price is firm. Negotiation happens on a trade in, but in a cash deal the price is the price. Period. We always get people trying to get us to give them "extras" for free. Case-in-point... had a guy buying a Mossberg 500 (on which we make about $30) trying to argue that we should throw in "a couple of flats of ammo for free (at $50-something a flat) so he felt like he was getting a good deal. When we refused, he was swearing and screaming as he stormed out of the store. That's a particularly extreme example, but not an isolated one.

For whatever reason, gun people seem to think they are owed discounts. No matter how much I might spend at my local auto parts place, I would never expect a discount. When I bought a new refrigerator, yes, I shopped around to find what I wanted, but didn't try to dicker on the price when I did find it.

 

[Sam1911]

If you don't like the price in the case at your LGS, simply GO ELSEWHERE AND TRY TO GET IT FOR LESS. Don't expect the shop to drop their prices for you.

Well, that sure is fair enough, if the local shop won't do transfers, go someplace else.

But the second line is interesting to me. I'm not a dickerer, just not my nature, but a lot of folks just LOVE to work a bargain. Further, as Mike says in the immediately previous post, a lot of shops do post prices that have room to move, or will throw in something to sweeten the deal.

I don't think there's any thing wrong with asking, but I sure wouldn't take it hard if the clerk wants to tell me that the price is as listed, period. Or if the shop wants to post an official policy that prices are not flexible -- no "haggling."

It just seems like a really personal thing, and not a hard and fast rule. Some dealers "deal" and some don't.

 

[drsfmd]

I don't think there's any thing wrong with asking, but I sure wouldn't take it hard if the clerk wants to tell me that the price is as listed, period. Or if the shop wants to post an official policy that prices are not flexible -- no "haggling."

Sure, that's fair... but you wouldn't believe the number of folks who get mad when told that the price is firm.

Of course, you also wouldn't believe the number of folks who want you to spend an hour walking them through the finer points of the 10/22 (or whatever) and then ask you to match the price of some big box store who didn't have employees capable of answering those questions.

 

[fallout mike]

I never haggle on new gun prices. But I wont buy a used gun for the asking price. People selling used things usually inflate their prices so that there is room to negotiate. If the shop you work in doesn't operate this way then you are the exception and not the rule.

 

[TreeDoc]

As others have pointed out a good staff is vital, not gun shop comandos, well informed polite staff that can actually say " I don't know but will find out the answer" to customers. If you are honest, polite and friendly, customers will beat a path to your door. Word of your friendly gun shop and those great 'guys' will spread like wildfire. A comfortable showroom with new and used guns is second. Price is always a consideration, but making a little off a returning customer is far more valuable than a chunk from a one sale. I have buddies, they buy guns, they have buddies, they buy guns. A bad word is said to spread 10 times faster the a good one, you can bet it's true.

 

[Apuuli]

The federal requirement for FFL transfers is taxing the patience of LGS owners. For their sake, please, let's just eliminate those laws. Then the LGS wouldn't have to worry about making pennies on paperwork and they could focus all their efforts on trying to sell guns that customers would be getting shipped to their doors cheaply from massive internet companies.

Clearly this conflict between LGS owners and customers is simply a result of federal regulations and can easily be cleared up by changing the laws. Then the two parties in conflict would never have to deal with each other again. Everyone would be happy. I look forward to that day.

 

[fallout mike]

Apuuli, shame on you for posting such things. You are killing their argument with scenarios like that.