opinions and reccomendations please?
- Thread starter nixpap
- Start date
- Status
Shawn Dodson
Member
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2002
- Messages
- 3,210
In the event of a breakdown in law and order after a natural disaster (hurricane, earthquake, etc.) or widespread civil disorder, as the great ammo shortage of 2013-2014 has shown, the only ammo you can count on having available to you is what you have on hand when things suddenly go south.
For an Emergency Preparedness Rifle (EPR) .30-06 ammunition is expensive and probably more capability than the average person would need for security. As I mentioned in my previous post 7.62x39 FMJ is inexpensive to stockpile and provides greater barrier blind capability (the ability to shoot through light barrier materials such as automotive windshield glass, auto sheetmetal, cinder blocks, the exterior corner of a residence, etc.) than 5.56x45. Premium 5.56 that's barrier blind costs about $25.00 per 20 rounds (and there are few barrier blind bullets available as reloading components and those that are available are expensive (such as the Nosler Partition bullet)). For that same $25 you can buy three times the 7.62x39 FMJ ammo with sealed bullets and primers.
For an Emergency Preparedness Rifle (EPR) .30-06 ammunition is expensive and probably more capability than the average person would need for security. As I mentioned in my previous post 7.62x39 FMJ is inexpensive to stockpile and provides greater barrier blind capability (the ability to shoot through light barrier materials such as automotive windshield glass, auto sheetmetal, cinder blocks, the exterior corner of a residence, etc.) than 5.56x45. Premium 5.56 that's barrier blind costs about $25.00 per 20 rounds (and there are few barrier blind bullets available as reloading components and those that are available are expensive (such as the Nosler Partition bullet)). For that same $25 you can buy three times the 7.62x39 FMJ ammo with sealed bullets and primers.
Time to jump onto an Ar15 wagon. They are extremely versatile and easy to shoot. Go to Palmetto and pick out an upper and lower and slap them together. Grab some mags, ammo, sights and you are good to go. DO IT NOW!!! We are only one incident away from another ban/panic under the current administration.
22-rimfire
Member
I'd skip the Garand unless you simply want to grab a piece of WWII history. It is more powerful than you need and you could make do hunting deer with the 223. Remember, they're aren't any rules anymore after the fan hits.... 22 Mag is my choice and it's big enough. See how you like carrying 100 rounds of 223 or 30-06 on your person. 223 is not too bad actually.
I love my SKS but I got into them when they were very cheap. I have some ammo around too. A person can accumulate some over 20+ years. It's still very cheap to shoot. But it is no longer the cheapest. Still an SKS is an uber reliable weapon that will work when you need it to work. That says a lot. I love AR's but I've seen lots of them with problems. Then again they are more accurate than the SKS and the price is much closer than it was when I got into that kind of rifle. I wouldn't get an AK. I haven't had great luck with them. They aren't as accurate as the SKS. The SKS is not bad on accuracy like some will say. It just isn't great. It's plenty good enough for what it's designed to do.
You already have some nice pistols so I'd wait on a 1911 unless you have a big itch to shoot competitively. A Garand is a very nice rifle but the military dropped down to a smaller caliber for a reason. You don't often need to shoot 500-600 yards at humans unless you're on a battlefield and if that's the case you'll be able to find rifles that dead people were carrying. Morbid but true.
I think you might be under gunned when it comes to shotguns too. Are you saying you have a 20 ga. Mossberg or a 20 inch barrel Mossberg? IMO a 12 ga has a lot going for it over a 20 ga. You can get lighter loads for it or you can get loads that will knock down a brown bear. There are some really good models for not much money around. The Chinese stuff is generally very good quality for the money. And I see them under $200 all the time. I have 2 of them and both are rock solid. I also have an 870 and it is a more refined shotgun and worth the extra money. I'm just saying the Chinese stuff will generally work well and last a long time. But they aren't as smooth or as accurate as the 870 IMO.
You already have some nice pistols so I'd wait on a 1911 unless you have a big itch to shoot competitively. A Garand is a very nice rifle but the military dropped down to a smaller caliber for a reason. You don't often need to shoot 500-600 yards at humans unless you're on a battlefield and if that's the case you'll be able to find rifles that dead people were carrying. Morbid but true.
I think you might be under gunned when it comes to shotguns too. Are you saying you have a 20 ga. Mossberg or a 20 inch barrel Mossberg? IMO a 12 ga has a lot going for it over a 20 ga. You can get lighter loads for it or you can get loads that will knock down a brown bear. There are some really good models for not much money around. The Chinese stuff is generally very good quality for the money. And I see them under $200 all the time. I have 2 of them and both are rock solid. I also have an 870 and it is a more refined shotgun and worth the extra money. I'm just saying the Chinese stuff will generally work well and last a long time. But they aren't as smooth or as accurate as the 870 IMO.
i'm about 95% leaning towards a Garand from the cmp. i figure, their not getting cheaper,there reliable,their sexy and they pack a hell of a wollup. round capacity doesn't bother me. plus i always wanted one. AR's aren't going anywhere and i think the supply of service grade Garands
will only shrink. oh yeah, 12 gauge 20 in.
justice06rr
Member
From a cost/budget standpoint I recommend:
1. SKS
2. AR15 from a good manufacturer
3. AK47
4. M1A
SKS's are solid rifles for shtf, and basic plinking. You can't go wrong with a nice Chinese or Russian SKS in the $350-500 range. They are very reliable just like an AK or Mini, but can be had for way cheaper. They are also easily modified if you choose to.
1. SKS
2. AR15 from a good manufacturer
3. AK47
4. M1A
SKS's are solid rifles for shtf, and basic plinking. You can't go wrong with a nice Chinese or Russian SKS in the $350-500 range. They are very reliable just like an AK or Mini, but can be had for way cheaper. They are also easily modified if you choose to.
RetiredUSNChief
Member
Yeah, I've a thought or two on this:
Methinks you're going about this all wrong. Instead of "what to add to my small but growing firearm collection", you should change your paradigm to "in what ORDER should I add to my small but growing firearm collection".
I have long had a list of pistols, revolvers, rifles, and shotguns that I want to get. Sometimes I modify that list when I come across something else, but it's a list nevertheless. I buy something from that list as my budget, desires, and opportunity come together for a given choice. What to buy and when it a factor of all these things and not necessarily a specific choice in the order I would like to buy them in.
For example, I may be saving up with the intent to buy a certain pistol. But of the OPPORTUNITY came about for a good deal on a rifle I'd like to get, then I'll simply shift gears and make the rifle the next purchase.
You have a Mossberg, a Glock, and a .357. I guess I do not have a big enough imagination to think your SD needs are not covered.
If you are not interested in hunting I would suggest buying a gun that will increase in value. There are an endless amount of options out there. Any WW2 and earlier military firearms, especially in original condition, will continue to appreciate at a good pace as the available inventory shrinks. 1950s-1980's S&W and Colt revolvers will do the same thing. Winchester has a new class now in USRA guns. Same with JM Marlins. If you go that route and get a NOS gun that is not fired do not be the first. If it has been and you decide to shoot it be VERY careful not to hurt value. You can do it. Just be careful.
If you are not interested in hunting I would suggest buying a gun that will increase in value. There are an endless amount of options out there. Any WW2 and earlier military firearms, especially in original condition, will continue to appreciate at a good pace as the available inventory shrinks. 1950s-1980's S&W and Colt revolvers will do the same thing. Winchester has a new class now in USRA guns. Same with JM Marlins. If you go that route and get a NOS gun that is not fired do not be the first. If it has been and you decide to shoot it be VERY careful not to hurt value. You can do it. Just be careful.
You really "think" that "Ar's aren't going anywhere? Ha, wish that were correct, but quite a few states have bans on them already and we narrowly escaped a federal ban on them less than a year ago. Better get your fighting guns first, and worry about the "fun" guns later. If you still are interested, have the money, etc.
Ha, wish that were correct, but quite a few states have bans on them already and we narrowly escaped a federal ban on them less than a year ago. Better get your fighting guns first, and worry about the "fun" guns later. If you still are interested, have the money, etc.justice06rr
Member
I've handled one at my LGS.
its basically a M&P15 Sport with Colt markings. You could do better with a Spikes Tactical Midlength for $849 at Primary arms.
Really? You're saying that S&W is NOW the supplier of Colt rifles?
Meh, I put "Spikes" with DPMS/Stag/come-latelies, but to each their own...
First the odds that you will need a SHTF firearm is unlikely. So save up $$ to get a top quality accurate AR 15 223 Rem rifle. An accurate rifle is fun to use varmint hunting and one can get by using it to shoot deer at close range. Later one can get an other upper for a different cartridge. For bird hunting and home protection get a good quality 12 Ga pump shot gun 28 inch barrel with screw in chooks . Later get a short barrel for the shot gun. It is harder to learn how to shoot small groups with a hand gun so start out with a 22 RF with a 4 0r 6 inch barrel. The 308 ammo will be around for some time so add a bolt action rifle with a 3-9 scope on it to your wont list. You can have firearms for hunting and if you need a firearm for protection, you have one.
all those guns, a bit of ammo, scopes,
and the total is about $5,000. Are you going to hunt enough to justify all that expense? The .22 handgun can suffice for small game. The AR can suffice for deer to 200 yds, if you use 60 gr Nosler Partition softpoints, for deep penetration.
. By not buying the shotgun and the bolt action, you'll have $2000 left for .22 ammo, bullet casting gear, and reloading components. I recommend a trigger job (drop in parts) if you are going to scope the AR and luminous sight inserts if it will be a defensive gun.. You can build your own AR for sub $600. Google and YouTube will show you how. Watch craigslist, Ebay and local listings for a scope, You want 'see-thru" mounts, and a used "gold-ring' Leupold. Leupold will fix their scopes, for free, forever, if it's not been obviously abused. Don't pay more than about 1/3rd of current retail list price for a used one. 2v7 compact is about right, for an AR223. Your EDC pistol is best for home defense, if you ccw it around the house.
KISS and Mr Murphy teach us not to add complexity, different "feels" and action types, etc, cause that will mess us up under stress Nobody has to shoot birds out of the air, you know. They all land sometime, somewhere.
and the total is about $5,000. Are you going to hunt enough to justify all that expense? The .22 handgun can suffice for small game. The AR can suffice for deer to 200 yds, if you use 60 gr Nosler Partition softpoints, for deep penetration.
. By not buying the shotgun and the bolt action, you'll have $2000 left for .22 ammo, bullet casting gear, and reloading components. I recommend a trigger job (drop in parts) if you are going to scope the AR and luminous sight inserts if it will be a defensive gun.. You can build your own AR for sub $600. Google and YouTube will show you how. Watch craigslist, Ebay and local listings for a scope, You want 'see-thru" mounts, and a used "gold-ring' Leupold. Leupold will fix their scopes, for free, forever, if it's not been obviously abused. Don't pay more than about 1/3rd of current retail list price for a used one. 2v7 compact is about right, for an AR223. Your EDC pistol is best for home defense, if you ccw it around the house.
KISS and Mr Murphy teach us not to add complexity, different "feels" and action types, etc, cause that will mess us up under stress Nobody has to shoot birds out of the air, you know.
They all land sometime, somewhere.
Last edited:
J_McLeod
Member
I'd get either and AR15 or an 19894C. 7.62 Soviet is cheaper, but darn near impossible to get without the imports. If those dried up, 5.56mm would be a lot easier to get. Or the .357 1894 so that you can have a rifle/pistol combo.
In a SHTF/self-defense scenario I'd definitely go for either the AK or AR (leaning more towards the AR)
The ammo for both's common, the parts are common, both are reliable and proven, they no longer cost your first born now that the panic's settled down. Personally I'd go with the AR simply because there's a ton more options available for that platform.
For a 1911, everyone has their favorite. I like my SA 1911 mil-spec, but I'd say choose a reliable brand and find the one you like best.
Like mentioned before, if you live that close to a store, get a Garand. They're cheap right now, accurate, fun as hell, milsurp ammo is decently priced, and when the CMP dries up the value of these things will double. You just can't go wrong with one.
The ammo for both's common, the parts are common, both are reliable and proven, they no longer cost your first born now that the panic's settled down. Personally I'd go with the AR simply because there's a ton more options available for that platform.
For a 1911, everyone has their favorite. I like my SA 1911 mil-spec, but I'd say choose a reliable brand and find the one you like best.
Like mentioned before, if you live that close to a store, get a Garand. They're cheap right now, accurate, fun as hell, milsurp ammo is decently priced, and when the CMP dries up the value of these things will double. You just can't go wrong with one.
buck460XVR
Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2007
- Messages
- 10,089
While a nice piece of history and a great collectable, for a true SHTF firearm, IMHO, for the money, there are many better options out there. Weight is one major factor,. A Garand is almost twice as heavy as a standard AR platform. To me this should be a consideration. Another consideration would be availability of Garand appropriate ammo during a true SHTF crisis. During a crisis where your reloading room or large stash of Garand appropriate ammo is not available, the use of a ported or vented gas screw would be an alternative, so standard commercial 30-06 ammo could safely be used. Even if one reloads, .223/5.56 is quite a bit less money to shoot than ought-six, and 1000 rounds takes up less space and weighs less. Another consideration for SHTF scenarios.
But then true SHTF scenarios are far and few between. While many of us like to fantasize about how well we would survive in a post-apocalyptic world, truth is, we just like guns.
Ignition Override
Member
nixpap: The CMP is the most reliable source for a nice, safe Garand at a good price, evaluated by dedicated staff. They just raised the price for M2 Ball from .50 to .60/rd. in late December.
If you want to shoot lots of much more affordable ammo, either an SKS (add a Tech Sight) with ammo now at .22/rd. or an AK-74 for a bit more money,
5.45x39 ammo is - this moment - down to .16/round! "Gunbot".
The only catch is that such ammo requires one to clean the bore/chamber, piston area each time.
But what a superb centerfire ammo value for now, while it lasts......hearing about ammo prices in '06, 1989 etc as we always do, won't really help.
If I did not already have enough rifles, two cases of that ammo, then the rifle would be sought. A Tech Sight, very easy to install and specific for an AK would follow.
If you want to shoot lots of much more affordable ammo, either an SKS (add a Tech Sight) with ammo now at .22/rd. or an AK-74 for a bit more money,
5.45x39 ammo is - this moment - down to .16/round! "Gunbot".
The only catch is that such ammo requires one to clean the bore/chamber, piston area each time.
But what a superb centerfire ammo value for now, while it lasts......hearing about ammo prices in '06, 1989 etc as we always do, won't really help.
If I did not already have enough rifles, two cases of that ammo, then the rifle would be sought. A Tech Sight, very easy to install and specific for an AK would follow.
Last edited:
I personally like an AR platform. Easy AND Reliable! That said my wife can handle it, as well as me. She weighs 100 lbs wet, and the recoil doesnt scare her. My SKS, how ever knocks her on her butt.
If SHTF is a factor, think of it this way... If we are invaded, the pricks will have 7.26x39 ammo. I like having an AR and an SKS on hand so no matter who it is I will have a weapon that will be capable of shooting whatever ammo they were carring. Hope that make sense and helps!
By using this logic maybe you can persuade your wife into letting ya buy TWO guns!
If SHTF is a factor, think of it this way... If we are invaded, the pricks will have 7.26x39 ammo. I like having an AR and an SKS on hand so no matter who it is I will have a weapon that will be capable of shooting whatever ammo they were carring. Hope that make sense and helps!
By using this logic maybe you can persuade your wife into letting ya buy TWO guns!
yzguy87
Member
In considering a rifle that fills the role of a shtf gun I suggest reading the link posted below. It's from an old thread about ak vs m1a for shtf BUT what JWarren had to say was worth reading when considering a rifle for shtf.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4061120&postcount=5
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=4061120&postcount=5
So what'd you get?
While the Garand is a great rifle, take it's weight into consideration for a SHTF scenario, and how far can you run with it doing shooting drills?
- Status
