35 Whelen
Member
"Tests" how? Hopefully you're not talking about the meaningless gel "tests".
35W
Opinions on standard vel 45 Colt for hunting
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35W
ClickClickD'oh
Member
35 Whelen said:
Not that I know of. The three I recall in particular involved the ever so scientific water gallons, the indisputable soggy phone books and highly calibrated pork shoulders.
"It's a funny thing, all these .45 Colt bullets going lengthwise through Mule Deer or horses when no one is looking, but every time someone tests it they can only get 21-24 inches of penetration at best."
Certainly depends on the bullet used.
Funny how a patched pure lead ball with poor sectional density that weighs considerably less gives clean passthroughs consistently at about the same velocity while taking out bones.
Certainly depends on the bullet used.
Funny how a patched pure lead ball with poor sectional density that weighs considerably less gives clean passthroughs consistently at about the same velocity while taking out bones.
ClickClickD'oh
Member
rodwha said:
Well of course it does. That's why you see 24 inches of penetration with some of these bullets while comparable velocity or faster velocity bullets that expand are only seeing half of that.
JohnnyFlake
Member
Well then, a .45 Cal bullet weighing in a 250gn/270gn, penetrating 18" / 24" doesn't really have to expand very much does it? And, on the way through, it will break bones if there in the path.
I am wondering, how many of the none believers here, have actually ever hunted game, deer, wild hogs, antelope or whatever, with a Colt .45 Handgun? Doing it and seeing it, will make you a believer!
I am wondering, how many of the none believers here, have actually ever hunted game, deer, wild hogs, antelope or whatever, with a Colt .45 Handgun? Doing it and seeing it, will make you a believer!
"Well of course it does. That's why you see 24 inches of penetration with some of these bullets while comparable velocity or faster velocity bullets that expand are only seeing half of that."
So you are saying a much heavier Keith style projectile won't penetrate as well or further than a BP pure lead ball that's traveling at a similar velocity???
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rIPazOT5M3A
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VpIVLUQ9rk8
*EDIT*
You see in the second video that his ball is traveling at the velocity of cowboy action loads, which are quite a bit slower than standard loadings that would be used to hunt with. There's just no way you can convince anyone that nearly twice the mass and an extra 100 fps+ couldn't penetrate any further.
So you are saying a much heavier Keith style projectile won't penetrate as well or further than a BP pure lead ball that's traveling at a similar velocity???
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rIPazOT5M3A
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VpIVLUQ9rk8
*EDIT*
You see in the second video that his ball is traveling at the velocity of cowboy action loads, which are quite a bit slower than standard loadings that would be used to hunt with. There's just no way you can convince anyone that nearly twice the mass and an extra 100 fps+ couldn't penetrate any further.
Last edited:
ClickClickD'oh
Member
JohnnyFlake said:
I do. Frequently. In fact, I've said it in many threads on this forum that my Ruger Blackhawk is by the numbers the most lethal firearm on the ranch. It has taken more animals than any of my other firearms.
I'm also a real big fan of my 24" Rossi 92.
rodwha said:
Well, I'm glad I'm not trying to convince anyone of that.
Remember 2 things here:
1) OP was specifically asking about baseline .45 Colt loads, so we aren't talking about some of the wonderful performance that the .45 Colt can be made to achieve.
2) I am specifically talking about claims that standard .45 Colt loads can shoot length wise through a Mule Deer or Horse. Other than an anecdotal comment in a book, no one has ever been able to repeat this type of performance in a verifiable fashion. That would require between 40 to 60 inches of penetration.
I would personally love to see someone get 40 to 60 inches of penetration from a standard .45 Colt round shot from a pistol.
I personally suspect that at some point in time someone got crosswise and lengthwise confused and just kept running with it.
FYI: Both of the videos you linked as anecdotal evidence are both of the "meaningless" gel variety as denoted by you in post #26. Just saying.
"1) OP was specifically asking about baseline .45 Colt loads, so we aren't talking about some of the wonderful performance that the .45 Colt can be made to achieve."
I'm not speaking about the Ruger only type loads, but the standard pressure run of the mill loads one would use in a standard .45 Colt (non cowboy loads).
"2) I am specifically talking about claims that standard .45 Colt loads can shoot length wise through a Mule Deer or Horse. Other than an anecdotal comment in a book, no one has ever been able to repeat this type of performance in a verifiable fashion. That would require between 40 to 60 inches of penetration."
Quite frankly I'm not sure if a standard load with a Keith bullet not meant to expand much could go nose to tail through a deer, but it can do it through a smaller adult hog. However you had something along the line of it not being capable of penetrating any more than 20-24" which is what I was crying foul about as we could see from the second video in which a ball of the same caliber traveling at cowboy load speeds with half of the weight was capable of doing that.
"FYI: Both of the videos you linked as anecdotal evidence are both of the "meaningless" gel variety as denoted by you in post #26. Just saying."
Ah, but it is a well known fact that a pure lead ball traveling at the speed of the ball shown above gives clean passthroughs more often than not despite ribs and shoulders on deer (broadside or quartering). The point is is that the typical bullets used have nearly twice the mass and will do much better.
I'm not speaking about the Ruger only type loads, but the standard pressure run of the mill loads one would use in a standard .45 Colt (non cowboy loads).
"2) I am specifically talking about claims that standard .45 Colt loads can shoot length wise through a Mule Deer or Horse. Other than an anecdotal comment in a book, no one has ever been able to repeat this type of performance in a verifiable fashion. That would require between 40 to 60 inches of penetration."
Quite frankly I'm not sure if a standard load with a Keith bullet not meant to expand much could go nose to tail through a deer, but it can do it through a smaller adult hog. However you had something along the line of it not being capable of penetrating any more than 20-24" which is what I was crying foul about as we could see from the second video in which a ball of the same caliber traveling at cowboy load speeds with half of the weight was capable of doing that.
"FYI: Both of the videos you linked as anecdotal evidence are both of the "meaningless" gel variety as denoted by you in post #26. Just saying."
Ah, but it is a well known fact that a pure lead ball traveling at the speed of the ball shown above gives clean passthroughs more often than not despite ribs and shoulders on deer (broadside or quartering). The point is is that the typical bullets used have nearly twice the mass and will do much better.
"Well, I'm glad I'm not trying to convince anyone of that."
"It's a funny thing, all these .45 Colt bullets going lengthwise through Mule Deer or horses when no one is looking, but every time someone tests it they can only get 21-24 inches of penetration at best."
"Well of course it does. That's why you see 24 inches of penetration with some of these bullets while comparable velocity or faster velocity bullets that expand are only seeing half of that."
Sure sounded like you were trying to convince someone...
"It's a funny thing, all these .45 Colt bullets going lengthwise through Mule Deer or horses when no one is looking, but every time someone tests it they can only get 21-24 inches of penetration at best."
"Well of course it does. That's why you see 24 inches of penetration with some of these bullets while comparable velocity or faster velocity bullets that expand are only seeing half of that."
Sure sounded like you were trying to convince someone...
Vern Humphrey
Member
Never shot a horse, but I have shot a deer with the .45 Colt, and it will pass through, end to end. A good 250 grain Keith- style bullet will leave a hell of a blood trail. The deer won't go far.
ClickClickD'oh
Member
rodwha said:
I do believe that I said I have yet to see a test in which it exceeds that penetration.
There is a difference. As I said, if someone were to produce a test in which it met the claimed performance, I would love to see it.
rodwha said:
It is very difficult to accurately extrapolate the performance of a projectile in such a manner.
rodwha said:
Well, since neither of my two statements you quoted have anything to do with the performance of a .45 Colt projectile as compared to a lead round ball
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodwha
as we could see from the second video in which a ball of the same caliber traveling at cowboy load speeds with half of the weight was capable of doing that.
It is very difficult to accurately extrapolate the performance of a projectile in such a manner.
Ahhh, but from what is known a projectile of the same caliber traveling at the same speed but of twice the mass will absolutely penetrate MUCH more. There is no assumptions made there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodwha
Sure sounded like you were trying to convince someone...
Well, since neither of my two statements you quoted have anything to do with the performance of a .45 Colt projectile as compared to a lead round ball
Certainly doesn't. However, much like stated before, twice the mass at the same velocity WILL penetrate much better. If a light weight lead ball of the same caliber (traveling rather slowly compared to what the original topic was concerning) can penetrate to what you claim is the maximum than what the topic was concerning WILL do more than that.
It's simple physics. Maybe you want to continue to refute that?
Originally Posted by rodwha
as we could see from the second video in which a ball of the same caliber traveling at cowboy load speeds with half of the weight was capable of doing that.
It is very difficult to accurately extrapolate the performance of a projectile in such a manner.
Ahhh, but from what is known a projectile of the same caliber traveling at the same speed but of twice the mass will absolutely penetrate MUCH more. There is no assumptions made there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rodwha
Sure sounded like you were trying to convince someone...
Well, since neither of my two statements you quoted have anything to do with the performance of a .45 Colt projectile as compared to a lead round ball
Certainly doesn't. However, much like stated before, twice the mass at the same velocity WILL penetrate much better. If a light weight lead ball of the same caliber (traveling rather slowly compared to what the original topic was concerning) can penetrate to what you claim is the maximum than what the topic was concerning WILL do more than that.
It's simple physics. Maybe you want to continue to refute that?
The fact is a projectile nearly half the weight and a little slower was able to penetrate slightly further than what you stated was possible. In essence it shows your numbers don't hold water. Granted I couldn't find a video of a Keith style bullet or similar penetrating gel at normal .45 Colt pressures physics aren't on your side. There's ABSOLUTELY no way it would penetrate even the same depth. Say what you will, but it's just not possible, especially not traveling a little faster.
ironworkerwill
Member
I don't know about a full grown Morgan horse from briscut to buttock. I do know it will fell any whitetail if shot inside 75 yards. I done it twice with a Dakota sa with regular old wally world shelf fodder. And another time with a Ruger 345 in 45auto at 45 "good yards".
Both LC rounds passed clean through. The acp hit the opposite shoulder quartering away, it was 230gr REM hollow point, it didn't open but rather pinched shut in the shoulder joint. All 3 shots killed the deer as effectively as any body shot I've ever made.
Both LC rounds passed clean through. The acp hit the opposite shoulder quartering away, it was 230gr REM hollow point, it didn't open but rather pinched shut in the shoulder joint. All 3 shots killed the deer as effectively as any body shot I've ever made.
WestKentucky
Member
I have never had a 45 colt, but I did run a 44 mag loaded pretty light. It should be very comparable to the majestic 45 in all its glory. I took a whitetail doe with it at about 25 yards. It was a pretty good shot to hit heart and 1 lung. I was using a JHP that did not expand very much, even when it lodged in the pine tree behind her. Was it adequate? Certainly. Was it overkill, no. Was it borderline, no, but that is my opinion.
For what little it's worth, a good sized deer is about a foot thick putting the airpump and oil pump at less than half that distance under the skin. It doesn't take a whole lot to do enough damage to shut the deer down. People have been doing it with a 30-30 for years, at extreme range where the bullets won't expand. If a 30 cal hole will do the trick, a 45 cal hole certainly will too. Just pick a hard cast or jacketed load and practice with it.
For what little it's worth, a good sized deer is about a foot thick putting the airpump and oil pump at less than half that distance under the skin. It doesn't take a whole lot to do enough damage to shut the deer down. People have been doing it with a 30-30 for years, at extreme range where the bullets won't expand. If a 30 cal hole will do the trick, a 45 cal hole certainly will too. Just pick a hard cast or jacketed load and practice with it.
Vern Humphrey
Member
People have been doing it with the .44-40. .38-40 and .32-20 for years, too -- and no complaints, other than limited range.
Quite a few of us old timers will recall round balls found under the off side skin of deer, flattened to 3/4" or more with a six inch circle of blood around them. Fifty caliber was most common. Pure lead, enough power to punch through the skin on one side, both lungs but so big and flat couldn't get through the off side skin. Very elastic. I had two. A buddy had three and my look old friend who shot big stuff, 58-69 cal, had one.
TimSr
Member
The penetrating capabilities of a standard velocity 45LC are legendary beyond my ability to believe, and some of those who worship this caliber have gone so far as to claim that the exact same bullet fired from a .454 Casull at .454 Casull velocities will actually penetrate less. I remain unconvinced.
I will concede that a standard velocity 45LC is adequate for close range deer, but I would stick with a cast, wide flat nosed bullet, and stay away from expanding bullets, and not try to shoot through any bone larger than a rib. Not saying it won't bust through a shoulder, b ut if you've got the side view, go for the exit wound.
I switched from .44 Mag to .454 Casull because I prefer the bang-flop, and I can say that a 240gr XTP-MAG at 1800fps WILL pass lengthwise through a deer, but it ain't pretty.
I will concede that a standard velocity 45LC is adequate for close range deer, but I would stick with a cast, wide flat nosed bullet, and stay away from expanding bullets, and not try to shoot through any bone larger than a rib. Not saying it won't bust through a shoulder, b ut if you've got the side view, go for the exit wound.
I switched from .44 Mag to .454 Casull because I prefer the bang-flop, and I can say that a 240gr XTP-MAG at 1800fps WILL pass lengthwise through a deer, but it ain't pretty.
"Quite a few of us old timers will recall round balls found under the off side skin of deer, flattened to 3/4" or more with a six inch circle of blood around them. Fifty caliber was most common. Pure lead, enough power to punch through the skin on one side, both lungs but so big and flat couldn't get through the off side skin."
No doubt. But where the velocity is still high within 75 yds. Past that deformation to that degree is unlikely and complete passthroughs with no ball to recover is the norm.
No doubt. But where the velocity is still high within 75 yds. Past that deformation to that degree is unlikely and complete passthroughs with no ball to recover is the norm.
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