Ordering multiple guns online question.

[PandaBearBG]

If me and my friends wanted a few guns and ordered from an online dealer, had it shipped to my local FFL, and say it's 3 guns for 3 different people who do all the proper paper work and background checks and each one gets their own. That's ok right? Even if the order and all the shipping info is only under my name? Or do I have to order them register them in my name then technically sell them to my friends? It may be a stupid question but ever since my "addiction" has grown my friends have gotten the bug and pester me nonstop with helping them find the right gun for them. I've only searched and found guns for me but I've found some decent deals with multiple item buys. Appreciate the sage advice fellas.

 

[cchris]

I'm wondering the same thing - any help would be doubly appreciated.

 

[Uncle Mike]

Your local FFL is going to do your background checks, on each one of you. You can order the firearms in your name for the convenience of shipping, but at the point of sale, or transfer, each one of you will have to pass the NICS before you can take delivery of the firearm.

You should have the FFL do your background checks before you purchase, you have 30 days to close the deal. The 4473 is good for 30 days.

Each one of you will have to do a 4473 form. Only 1 name per form allowed.

If you take possession of all 3 firearms and then sell them, you are treading close to strawman purchase territory, caution. Call your local ATF office and ask them what to do.

I promise the ATF will not scoop you up one dark night as you lay asleep for calling them and asking that question, that, my friend is what they are there for.

BTW.. If you for some reason didn't pass your background check, and the place you bought the firearms wouldn't take them back...well you just bought a firearm for the local FFL, who will probably have to relinquish it to ATF...so make sure you can own the firearms before any money starts flying.

 

[dairycreek]

Uncle Mike gives you good advice. A dealer has an FFL for just the purpose about which you are asking. He uses the FFL to make money and ostensibly knows the rules surrounding the transfer/sale of firearms. Find an FFL in your area of the world and ask for his guidance on how to move forward within the law. To do otherwise is risking potentially big trouble.

 

[hiphowitzer]

Multiple gun transfer

The issue is not how many guns you purchase, but how many are transfered. Any individual that is transfered more than one handgun in a five day period by a FFL, the FFL is required to file a report of the transaction(s) directly to ATF, which includes all the serial number(s). 4473's have serial numbers but they stay with the FFL.

 

[BP Hunter]

Uncle Mike,
What I know is that the form 4473 is only good for the day of the sale. Your information of it being legal for 30 days sounds too good to be true. I buy guns nearly every less than 30 days, from sometimes the same store, and have to go through the background check every time. Can you give us a link to that statement? Thanks.

 

[Uncle Mike]

The 4473 form can be filled out by the customer and THEN, providing the customer has passed a background check, that form is good for 30 consecutive calender days.

I think what you are thinking is that you can put multiple purchases on a 4473,from different days, if within the same month...NO!

The 4473 is good for a ONE TIME ONLY sale. Once you have signed the back of the 4473 and taken possession of your firearm, it is a done deal, the 4473 is now closed.

If you where to purchase a gun on Monday and take possession, sign the back of the 4473... and Thursday of the next week buy another gun, you cannot use the same 4473, a new one must be started.

Different states vary on the background checks also...when I was in FL, you had 30 days to complete the sale of a firearm to a customer if the customer had a check done...the check was good for 30 days, if for some reason the customer did not pick up the gun within 30 days, another check had to be called in.

I guess the guy could have a FFL do a background check on him, just to see if he would pass, and NOT fill out a 4473 until the actual transfer was to take place, but I don't know if his FFL would do that...we have to fill out the 4473 before the check is done, hence the 30 day window for the transfer to take place.

 

[PandaBearBG]

Thanks fellas for the information, very good stuff.

So just to be doubly sure, Lets run this thru story problem style:

PERSON A: Orders 2 guns on Gunbroker or similar site. Pays seller for firearms and shipping. Guns arrive at licensed FFL dealer. PERSON A pays FFL transfer fee to FFL dealer. PERSON A and PERSON B both fill out 4473 and pass background check and each pays seperate fees for their own document and own firearm. All legal? Correct?

But what if PERSON B asks PERSON A to order 1 firearm from online site. PERSON A orders and pays online dealer for gun and shipping. Gun arrives at FFL dealer and only PERSON B pays for the shipping and background check and passes 4473 and backgroudn check. Is that legal?

Sorry to be so redundant but I just want to make sure it is legal. I am going to call my FFL tomarrow to see what he says.

 

[rogertc1]

Check your State law. In my State I do not get a background check phoned in on my firearm purchases because I have a CCW. I do however fill out a 4473 for each.

 

[woodsoup]

One gun= one transfer
Two guns= two transfers
Three guns= three transfers

Just that simple. Stop trying to over complicate things. Ask your FFL about it.

 

[Uncle Mike]

But what if PERSON B asks PERSON A to order 1 firearm from online site. PERSON A orders and pays online dealer for gun and shipping. Gun arrives at FFL dealer and only PERSON B pays for the shipping and background check and passes 4473 and backgroudn check. Is that legal?

Yes, that is legal.

Person A could order firearms for the whole world, if he was so inclined, as long as person B is the one getting the background check and is the ACTUAL BUYER of said firearm, which he would be, person A just loaned him the money...right.

Look, you could order a firearm and pay for it from an online retailer for your 3rd. grade teacher.... as long as you do not take possession of the firearm and THEN give it someone else your OK.

There is the Gift exception, which is why I advise you to call your local ATF and get the lowdown because it is somewhat complicated and I'm not going into all that.

Even if you or pres. Obama orders and pays for a firearm for someone else, that 'someone else' HAS to get the background check and be qualified to possess/own said firearm.

 

[CoRoMo]

I do however fill out a 4473 for each.

Two guns= two transfers
Three guns= three transfers

That's not reflective of my experience. I've made a few 2-gun purchases in the past, and when they arrived at my local FFL holder, I filled out one 4473, and he transferred both guns to me. Is that not one 4473 and one transfer?

 

[natman]

One gun= one transfer
Two guns= two transfers
Three guns= three transfers

Just that simple. Stop trying to over complicate things. Ask your FFL about it.

Not quite sure what the point is with this, but it's not quite right. One person can certainly buy two guns at the same time and put both on the same 4473.

A more accurate rule would be:

One person= one transfer
Two persons= two transfers
Three persons= three transfers

 

[Uncle Mike]

It is NOT how many guns are bought at one time...it IS a ONE TIME buy.

You can buy 2 guns today and they will be on ONE 4473 form...once you sign that 4473 and have taken possession of the firearms, the 4473 is done, kaput, over, dead!

You can buy 3 guns tomorrow and they will be on ONE 4473 form...once you sign that 4473 form and take possession of the 3 firearms thes 4473 is done, kaput, dead!

get it....?

each 'sale' constitutes a new 4473 form, but you can have multiple firearms encompassed in one sale...

Look at it this way...each time you sign that 4473 (the second time you sign it) you have constituted a 'sale' and that particular form 4473 is over with.

 

[PandaBearBG]

Uncle Mike, thanks for your patience with my questions, I appreciate the advice, of course I will double check with my FFL too. Thanks!

 

[wally]

Multiple gun transfer
The issue is not how many guns you purchase, but how many are transfered. Any individual that is transfered more than one handgun in a five day period by a FFL, the FFL is required to file a report of the transaction(s) directly to ATF, which includes all the serial number(s). 4473's have serial numbers but they stay with the FFL.

True but its no big deal. I've ordered and transfered multiple guns at once several times from CDNN and from gun show dealers, with the most on one order being four. No jack booted thugs came to visit. But then maybe its because my FFL was an HPD officer at the time. I also have owned class III for over 25 years and have a C&R license.

Good for him but bad for me, he got promoted to the SWAT team and gave up the FFL sideline.

I never fear obeying the law, even if I don't particularly like it.

--wally.

 

[Uncle Mike]

Not a problem Panda...

 

[MinnMooney]

Be very careful about ordering and paying for a gun that is for your friend. If he doesn't pass the background check then he cannot buy the gun. If you take possession of that gun due to his failed Bk.Grnd. check then it's YOURS - not his. If you resell it to him after taking possession (and checking "NO" to the question on the Form 4473 that asks, "Is this gun being purchased for someone other than yourself?") then it would probably be viewed as a straw purchase and that is very illegal. It would be illegal because you had every intention of buying the gun for him and not for yourself.

 

[Mojo-jo-jo]

I have done exactly what you are working on before. It does not matter who pays or ships. The firearms will be transferred from the wholesaler/importer/manufacturer to the FFL dealer. What matters is who the FFL transfers each gun to.

1. Make arrangements with the transferring FFL and explain what you want to do beforehand. Obtain a signed copy of the FFL.
2. Collect payment from your friends and order the guns. Provide the copy of the FFL obtained in step 1 to the wholesaler/importer/manufacturer and they will ship all the guns to the address on the FFL.
3. Each person needs to individually complete a separate form 4473 with the FFL that is transferring the guns to you/your friends and pay any fee required. This avoids any semblance of a straw purchase (it is not). The FFL will then hand over the firearm to each person and log them individually in their bound book.

Basically, this is exactly what happens when a FFL dealer buys guns from a wholesaler for resale. The difference here is that they are not paying the wholesaler--you are.