Original Rogers & Spencer advices

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Hsberger

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Hello need some advice
Just bought a early original R&S and need some expert help. Now using 14 grain swiss and .451 round bullets, 1075 cap. Should i go higher in powder and bigger size bullets, dont want to over load it, it is old?
Looking in to make same paper cartridges what bullet size and mould should i buy then? Newer done it so need help.
Is it possible to find the history somewhere?
Thanks
 
How old you talking? One i have was bought in early 70s. I load it like a Remington 1858. 20-28g, .454 ball, #10 primer.
 
very nice, excuse folks doubting authenticity as the originals do tend to be rare in the US.

thanks for sharing pictures..

wish I could be of help with load information. If what you are loading works I would stay with it, except perhaps top off charges of powder with enough fine corn meal to allow the bullet to seat as close to the front of the cylinder as possible.

good luck with it and please keep posting.

-kBob
 
Thanks. Using 14 grain swiss and 20 grain polenta. It shots good now. Any tips on how to find info about make paper cartridgis and thinking if bying a mould make my own bullets.
They are not so common in Europe but black powder commes more due to the weapon laws chaning quick and make it more and more difficult to get a licence for nomal guns.
 
As only 5000 R&S were manufactured for the Union government and none issued during the civil war, well the auction price is surprisingly small. A few had been made for private sales but the majority were stored until Francis Bannerman’s surplus munitions company bought the lot and resold them on the civilian market.

I have two R&S’s not original of course and I shoot the same load as the Colt Army and Remington NMA That’s either 1.6 CC, (25.5 gr) or 1.9 CC (30.3 gr) of 3F, as the mood dictates, a lubed 1/8 felt wad and .454 round ball.
I became interested when another blackpowder shooter allowed me to shoot his, also an Italian clone. His load was one grain heavier than yours, 15 grains, other wise the same. He was also a Bullseye shooter, shooting for points.
 
Very cool. Congratulations!

I believe that your current load is probably over cautious if the revolver is in good working order and certainly that a .451 ball is too undersize to shoot well. Have you slugged the barrel to determine groove diameter? A pure lead ball at 0.002" over groove diameter would be best.

As to charge, 21 grs Fffg is a popular and accurate load for cowboy action shooting. Should deliver near 700 fps without putting undue stress on your revolver.
 
I would have baught a Italian clone but we need a licens for that, and I have a problem that l have to many guns, which is ridiculously low in Sweden how many you can have.
The barrel is 11.4mm .45 so then i will try .454. Will order some.
How is FFFg compared with Swiss #1 load?
Try 21 grs of Swiss #1 is ok you think?
See if I can get some FFFg the problem is they dont send it and i live in the real country side and traveling is not essy nowerdsys with this corona.
Thanks for the help
 
I’ve heard from posting here that the Swiss powder, being of better quality, (?) is more energetic. How that would equate to volume used I don’t know. Is the grading different. Swiss 1 is equal to what F grading, anyone know.

Still, by volume I wouldn’t think it would matter much.
21 grains In a 44 caliber revolver is a light load regardless of black powder brand.
 
Swiss powder designations run "backwards" to the F---g identification.
No 1 is about 4Fg, 2 is about 3Fg, 3 is about 2Fg, 4 is "1 1/2" Fg, 5 is Fg. Null B is extra fine for flintlock pan only.

I wouldn't load an original with No1/FFFFg.
 
Last edited:
Agree with Jim. If Swiss No1 is equivalent to 4Fg, ie super fine, it's not what I would use in an original. Too fast a peak pressure for comfort. Fffg or Ffg would be more suitable.
 
Ok i got some bullets .451 caps and Swiss #1 with the gun when i baught it and he said he used 14 grain of it. Maybe thats why he used little powder
Looks like i have to take a tour and get some new stuff and see where i can buy some fffg then and try that. Thanks
 
I'd try a .454 bullet. 14 grains of Swiss #1, with a filler over it, will work fine, but be careful, Swiss #1 will dribble out the nipples if you aren't careful. Swiss #2 is more often used for revolver.
 
Ok i am trying to find Hodggon fffg difficult now have to go 5 houres one whay. Found a black powder called Explosia fff from Czech Republic they are selling. Never heard of it.
 
Regarding the auction revolver which sold for $1,500. I think that price is too high. The reason is mainly because it has been refinished. The edges are soft showing it has been buffed and reblued. I believe the bluing is the wrong type too. Plus the hammer and loading lever should be color case hardened. Not to mention the auction house charges a 23% buyers premium so if the hammer price was $1500 the actual price paid by the winner was $1845.

The OP's revolver is much nicer. Not much finish left but really nice crisp edges and crisp markings.

And here is a nearly new one showing the gorgeous original bluing:
http://www.antiquearmsinc.com/roger...ion-civil-war-colt-1860-remington-freeman.htm
 
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