Over seas without a gun, and I wish I'd had one. Sharing an experience.

[luzyfuerza]

I've often said that Americans who have never lived overseas have voluntarily denied themselves a most wonderful experience...that of RETURNING home to the United States.

 

[pockets]

I've lived and worked all over the world - Europe, Middle East, North Africa. Even living in Naples, I never felt I was a particular target or that anything really violent was in the works. I really enjoyed myself. The most dangerous "feeling" places (and statistically most dangerous) were American slums.

Same here. I've lived and worked in many countries around the world, without feeling threatened in my daily life.
Some of the scariest places are right here in the USA.

 

[Speedo66]

I have to put in here, you guys who say there's nothing to be afraid of in Europe are all speaking from a male perspective. A woman can't really walk down the street alone in many cities now.

I have heard since the mid east diaspora that certain countries have experienced large numbers of immigrants targeting women. Germany comes to mind. I've also heard in Sweden similar events, but Sweden being Sweden, the gov't. attempts to cover it up because it's not PC to point fingers at immigrants. Unfortunately, women, particularly around the main train station in Stockholm, have suffered jostling and worse from large numbers of unemployed young immigrant males.

Unfortunately, certain parades in this country have experienced similar episodes, with drunken revelers attacking women, so it's not just a European problem.

 

[Crawdad1]

I have to put in here, you guys who say there's nothing to be afraid of in Europe are all speaking from a male perspective. A woman can't really walk down the street alone in many cities now.

Good point.

 

[Deanimator]

I feel that way about going to Chicago without a gun.

I adapt by being willing to use whatever is to hand as a lethal weapon, be it an automobile or a gas nozzle.

Until the election, I expected this country to go the way of Belgium and France. No doubt there will still be terrorist attacks here, but at least we won't be actively importing the perpetrators while trying to disarm their intended victims.

 

[Lo8080]

460, as I read your post I couldn't help but agree with you. I share the same mentality you exhibited. It is frustrating when others, mainly my wife, are not as aware of surroundings. I probably would have mentioned it to the group before we hit the streets, precautions to take to not become vulnerable.

 

[Manny]

Ireland is my lone overseas experience, once in 2004 & again in 2008. Wonderful warm and extremely hospitable people wherever we went . The lone place that seemed dodgy was Belfast in Northern Ireland. We took a taxi tour with a driver who was an "Orangeman", had spent time in prison because of it and had lost family members to the violence. Some pretty run down areas with huge murals of AK47 wielding masked terrorists and lots of other violent imagry. He said the "troubles" are mostly behind now and that long term the Catholics will prevail due to higher birth rates.

I didn't worry about no gun, but no knife was tough. No knife made me feel darn near naked and was just inconvenient. .

 

[salt&battery]

it is a horrible way to live where you cannot venture outside without fear of being killed. the mental anguish from worrying will do you more harm then an imaginary attack. odds are astronomical of really needing a gun. I carried one for a while then left it home being it was a pain in the neck and I never needed it before or after. some guys should relax and just enjoy the sites in Europe or elsewhere. just stay out of high risk areas

 

[TomJ]

it is a horrible way to live where you cannot venture outside without fear of being killed. the mental anguish from worrying will do you more harm then an imaginary attack. odds are astronomical of really needing a gun. I carried one for a while then left it home being it was a pain in the neck and I never needed it before or after. some guys should relax and just enjoy the sites in Europe or elsewhere. just stay out of high risk areas

Just some food for thought. Recognizing that something is wrong with a situation and being paranoid are different things. I know a number of people who wound up being victims of crimes because they we too naive to recognize a situation or people that needed to be avoided. In regards to carrying or not carrying a gun, that's a personal decision that no one else should make for you. I live in a Chicago suburb that has a negligible crime rate, but I carry every day. The issue isn't staying out of high risk areas, which should be done as much as possible. It's whether crime will come to you. As safe as our area is, we have the occasional armed robbery, shooting, break in, etc. I don't worry about those things, but am aware that they may happen and do what I can to be prepared to defend myself and my kids in the unlikely event it's necessary to do so.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

it is a horrible way to live where you cannot venture outside without fear of being killed. the mental anguish from worrying will do you more harm then an imaginary attack. odds are astronomical of really needing a gun. I carried one for a while then left it home being it was a pain in the neck and I never needed it before or after. some guys should relax and just enjoy the sites in Europe or elsewhere. just stay out of high risk areas

In no way has anyone made any sort of comment suggesting they are afraid to walk out their door without a gun for fear of getting killed.

If you choose to "just relax and see the sights" good for you. I choose to watch out for the woman I love and the friends I have with me. That type of lax situational awareness is what can get people into trouble.

Avoiding high risk areas is easier said than done. Public transit hubs are high risk area, and when you are relying on public transit to get around, you are exposed, whether you notice the potential risk or not.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

460, as I read your post I couldn't help but agree with you. I share the same mentality you exhibited. It is frustrating when others, mainly my wife, are not as aware of surroundings. I probably would have mentioned it to the group before we hit the streets, precautions to take to not become vulnerable.

I actually did bring up my observations and a need for caution and care.

My companions are oblivious to danger. My words were ineffective. Now in hind sight, they sent me messages acknowledging some of the observations I made.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I don't know that a gun would have made any difference in my circumstance. I'll never know and am glad the need was not tested.

I'm confident in my assertions and my observations. However, they apply only to this one trip, and can't be taken as a blanket statement about foreign countries, or international travel.

In the end, I wish I'd had one for the potential benefit, even though I would always hope that benefit was never realized.

 

[old lady new shooter]

I don't know that a gun would have made any difference in my circumstance. I'll never know and am glad the need was not tested.

I'm confident in my assertions and my observations. However, they apply only to this one trip, and can't be taken as a blanket statement about foreign countries, or international travel.

In the end, I wish I'd had one for the potential benefit, even though I would always hope that benefit was never realized.

Now imagine you LIVE somewhere where it's illegal to carry.

 

[Nathan Detroit]

I don't mean to derail your thread, but the only time I ever felt truly naked without a gun was up in Fairbanks in the month leading up to Christmas many years back. I was visiting my girlfriend with plans to fly back home with her for her Christmas break. I walked everywhere, day or night, regardless of temperature. Walking back to her apartment at 10 or 11 PM, with temperatures running -10 to -30 F, I would see the local family dogs running free. You would not see them at all during the day, but they were turned loose at night. There were all kinds of heavily built dogs like huskies and shepherds. No small dogs to be seen in the mix.

The first time I ran across this they were on the other side of the street going in the opposite direction from mine. They had strung out, single file. A few seconds after the last one went past me, I felt a bump on the back of my one leg. I looked down and there was one of the dogs. I never wanted a 1911 in my hand and my back against one of the local trucks that were on the street as I did that night. It happened a number of times on my late night walks back to our apartment, but I didn't let them get behind me again.

 

[TomJ]

460Shooter,
FWIW, my sister and her family recently were in Europe as was one of my customers. Their experiences mirrored yours, especially with attempted pickpocketing.

 

[Deanimator]

The issue isn't staying out of high risk areas, which should be done as much as possible.

My mother lives one suburb over from Tinley Park.

Tinley Park wasn't a "high risk area"... until it was for those women in that Lane Bryant store...

 

[Sistema1927]

I travel quite regularly. I make sure to exercise the same level of situational awareness that I do back home. This has served me well in London, Madrid, NYC, and a bunch of other places.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Now imagine you LIVE somewhere where it's illegal to carry.

Yep. I'm glad I visited, and will visit Europe again, but I'm glad I live in the US.

 

[Flynt]

I have been in some pretty rough war zones in Southeast Asian. My wife and I have traveled a bit in Europe and Asia, and even came close to getting mugged once in Shoreditch (East London), before it became a trendy spot. And yes, the con artists and pic-pockets abound in the tourist spots in Paris, such as the Eiffel Tower and Notre Dame. We believe in taking reasonable precautions and then relaxing and having a good time. Sometimes excessive fear can even be worse than what what you're trying to avoid. I realized this as my parents started to age. They used to be adventurous travelers, but as they got older, they became more and more worried about being cheated or robbed -- to the extent that they should have just stayed home. It was sad thing to watch, and I vowed that I'd resist that attitude when I got older.

 

[JSH1]

I have to put in here, you guys who say there's nothing to be afraid of in Europe are all speaking from a male perspective. A woman can't really walk down the street alone in many cities now.

Why wife disagrees. She has been to Spain, Germany, France, and the Czech Republic on her own as well as many other countries with me where she has ventured out on her own. The most recent trip was to the Czech Republic and she was with a female coworker that was miserable to travel with due to paranoia. This woman wouldn't even walk from a restaurant to the hotel, in downtown Prague, surrounded by hundreds of people, because she was afraid she would be kidnapped and forced into sex slavery! After that my wife left her at the hotel and enjoyed the rest of the trip alone.

 

[salt&battery]

In no way has anyone made any sort of comment suggesting they are afraid to walk out their door without a gun for fear of getting killed.

If you choose to "just relax and see the sights" good for you. I choose to watch out for the woman I love and the friends I have with me. That type of lax situational awareness is what can get people into trouble.

Avoiding high risk areas is easier said than done. Public transit hubs are high risk area, and when you are relying on public transit to get around, you are exposed, whether you notice the potential risk or not.

well not feeling right and naked without a gun indicates to me anyway that there is a fear of getting killed that is why you need the gun. you do not need a gun if some one wants to kiss you. if that is the way some like to live good for them and it is their choice it is not for me

 

[gojuice101]

I just got back from a trip that included Mexico and Belize (good god that's a rough place). Mexico was fine, other than the people being extremely pushy. In Belize, on the other hand, I definitely missed my sidearm. I didn't have any dangerous encounters, but was a little uneasy. I've been to some bad areas in America, and Belize City made them look good. Of course, our guide talked about their outrageous crime rate and he pointed out that tourists are actually the safest people. Belize has a dedicated tourism police force, and he told us that they also have a "speedy trial" system there, specifically for crimes against tourists. Apparently even the worst criminals in the country know that you just don't mess with the tourists, so crimes against them are pretty rare. Of course, there tourism is basically the backbone of the economy so they take it VERY seriously.

I also remember that one of the people in the tour was completely terrified that guys were walking around with machetes. Apparently its a pretty common thing there to hire them to clear out yards and lots by hand, but seeing them just freaked her out.

I have never been to Europe, so I have no idea how it is over there. I definitely won't give up traveling because I can't have a weapon, but in some areas I definitely feel less comfortable.

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

The two places I went abroad where I wished I had a gun were Banda Aceh, Indonesia at the northern tip of Sumatra and the Philippines. What the heck was I doing in those places you might ask? They were both church trips. Indonesia was a trip to help out with tsunami relief after the Thailand tsunami hit in 2004. Philippines was just a regular church trip. I have been to Italy as well but never felt unsafe there. I was related to half the town we were staying in.

 

[Radagast]

I'll just leave this here, in response to OLNS' comment about the guys who recommend canes not showing up. http://unbreakableumbrella.com/

 

[Capybara]

Interesting OP. I have spent a lot of time in both London and Paris for work. I have rarely felt threatened anywhere in the UK. Last time I was London, I stayed in Kensington, a pretty upper scale neighborhood and I saw dozens of cops walking around the high street, carrying MP5s. Also saw plenty of MP5 toting cops near Big Ben and at #10 Downing Street. We did a two week trip last year to England and stayed five days in London, hung out with 40k stoned freaks to watch Summer Solstice at Stonehenge, then rented a car and did a trip through Salisbury, Bath and the Cotswolds. Did not feel any real threats anywhere. Most of the areas we were in were pretty touristy, had a wonderful time.

Paris, been there five times. I am a photographer/cinematographer and am often toting around lots of expensive camera gear out in the open, shooting at night, by myself. One time, I was on the Metro, riding with my wife, carrying a steel tripod and I could tell that a guy sitting across from us was sizing us up for a pickpocket, or grab and run, I could just tell by how he was eyeing us, I had my camera bag and tripod. When we got up to disembark the Metro, I began waving my relative heavy steel tripod around casually, remarking out loud, in French, "Wow, I bet getting your skull crushed by this would be pretty painful" to my wife. I also made direct eye contact with the guy. He took off. That's the only time in Paris that felt sketchy. We rented a car and drove down to Grasse, Eze, Nice. On the way, we were in a crowd in Aix en Provence, standing in line to get some lunch when a girl pick pocketed a tourist's purse, just snatched it and ran. I made chase but she was faster than I was and had a head start. The woman who had her purse snatched was screaming, it was crazy. On the same trip, we stayed in Cannes and were riding a public bus. My wife and I were the only ones on the bus who were not Muslim and my wife's exposed legs were drawing death stares from a lot of people. France is more Muslim than not now, they gave away their country.

I agree with the others, situational awareness is number one. Not looking like or acting like a tourist would be number two. Anytime I travel to a non-industrialized country, I research and hire a "fixer" whose job is to make sure that we are not hassled, shaken down or kidnapped. I get references from known sources and have had very good fixers all over the world. I don't do that in industrialized countries, but in Morocco, India, Vietnam, anywhere like that, any African or Muslim country especially, just hire a fixer, they can keep you out of trouble and make it so you don't get into trouble, well worth the cost. Out fixer in Morocco saved our butts big time this past May. We did a work expedition out to the Sahara and on the way back, I had a Go Pro on the hood of our van to shoot time lapse video of the road trip and scenery. Coming back from the desert, into the town we were staying in, we were stopped by a couple of cops at a roadside checkpoint. Our fixer spoke them in Arabic and it started getting pretty heated. Turned out I had accidentally shot time lapse video of them coming into the checkpoint. Moroccan police do not like being on video, at all. Our fixer smoothed it over (he knew one of the cops) and he told me to delete the footage, which I did. But think of what could have happened if we wouldn't have had our fixer. Get it? I had no idea there even was a checkpoint coming back into the city so it was my bad, but thank goodness for our fixer.