Over Under Advice

[jcramin]

Im looking for some advice on a cheap Over Under shotgun for Skeet and Trap for me my wife and my son.

This is just a started gun to see how interested we are in trap and skeet. If non of us like it, it may just end up in the safe. So, im looking for CHEAP right now.

ALSO Id like advice on some nicer ones in case we do like it and want to upgrade and my son will be going to high school next year and the school has a trap team that he may join if he decides he likes it.

Thanks,
J

 

[waterhouse]

What is your definition of cheap? $500? 1000? $1500?

 

[ArmedBear]

Cheap ones break. New, I wouldn't go below $1000 on sale.

There will be people on here who claim that's snobbery, but it's not. They don't call it snobbery if someone says a rifle won't shoot straight or a pistol will stovepipe, but for some reason, when shotguns come up, people don't like the truth.

That said, you can pick up a good used gun from a known good brand, for a decent price. However, get some help from someone who knows what to look for.

A Browning, durable as it is, can be rendered worthless by shooting it enough, with heavy enough loads, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If they don't think so, they don't have the experience you need someone to have.

One of my favorite guns ever, of any kind, in 30 years of shooting, is a used SKB 20 Gauge O/U I picked up for 500 bucks.

Look for used guns: SKB (aka Weatherby and Ithaca SKB), Browning (perhaps Miroku-branded Citori predecessor), Beretta, Winchester.

If it says "Made in Turkey", don't buy it. Yes, some people have had luck with Turkish guns, but that's exactly what it is: luck. Don't rely on being lucky. You will avoid far more crap shotguns than you will get good ones by following this rule.

So, why do you want an O/U to try out clay shooting?

You can get a well-balanced, high-quality semiauto for a LOT less, and the gas-operated ones recoil less, too. Furthermore, it can be a lot easier to swap out the buttstock, barrel, etc. to make it fit you, your wife and your soon. It's VERY unlikely that you will find any single gun that fits you all even well enough to mess around with, though I suppose you could all be exactly the same size.

A shotgun is like a golf club, not a rifle.

 

[berettashotgun]

Used O/U's are pretty pricey, but with a good brand as listed by Armed Bear, you will spend 20-30 times the amount you paid for the shotgun in ammo cost - at prices 10 years ago on the ammo
Used Remington 1100's are the ticket for most any shotgun sport for the masses.
I actually OWN and use a Remington for dove hunting - just because Beretta doesn't offer a semi 28ga.......but I'll quail hunt with a Beretta!!
If you are positive you need a O/U I'd personally suggest looking on the auction web sites for the best deal.

 

[redneck2]

If you buy a good used one, at the right price, you can probably get most all your money back if you don't like it. Rather than waste $600 on something of questionable quality, I'd get a used one for $1,000.

The semi-auto idea would most likely be the most practical.

 

[kentucky_smith]

Check out CDNN catalog. Look around for nice used Winchesters or SKBs. You can find nice used skb's (sometimes with the name Weatherby on them for $650-700.

A Fausti might work (then again it might not) and can be found in the $500 range. Once again, check out the cdnninvestments.com catalog.

If that is above your budget, a Remington/EAA/Baikal Spartan will work with the finesse and certainty of a 10 pound sledge.

Avoid anything made in Turkey.

 

[KevinAbbeyTech]

I have heard good things about the CZ-Woodcock ($1200 Brand New)

http://www.czusa.com/product_detail.php?id=57

Also CharlesDaly has their model 206 for about $900

http://www.charlesdaly.com/206.asp

 

[Milkmaster]

This is just a started gun to see how interested we are in trap and skeet. If non of us like it, it may just end up in the safe. So, im looking for CHEAP right now.

I will give a vote of dissent in the ranks here. My son has a 12 ga Spartan with nearly 6000 rounds through it in the last 2 years. Never has failed to fire and still has a tight lock up. I think we paid $500 incl tax at Dick's for it. The Spartan has made for a reliable and affordable O/U for his high school trap team needs.

Edit: I will add something to my original post above...Going with the less expensive Spartan will give you a taste of what an O/U is like. If you favor a more expensive O/U later, the $500 you spent on the spartan won't amount to much in comparison over time. Later on maybe I will give our Spartan to a grand kid! I want to buy a 686 Beretta for myself, but three teenagers at home right now prevents that from being priority. However, my son does get to be on the trap team with his less expensive Spartan and is successful. Less expensive is not always cheap!

 

[ZEROED]

Take a look at a Ruger. I don't own one, but I shoot sporting clays with several guys who have them and they are happy with them. They shoot well too. I own a Beretta and several Browning O/Us and am happy with them, but the Ruger is cheaper and is good quality. However the main consideration (IMO) with a shotgun is fit. If it doesn't fit correctly, you will have trouble adapting to it.

 

[Virginian]

Okay, I'll give you some advice. Don't buy a cheap over and under. You could get a lot better gun for your money in either a good used pump or semi auto. A two barrel gun takes more labor, therefore the same quality level of gun will cost more. A same cost gun will be lower quality. If you decide you like shooting, then get a decent whatever you want.

 

[ArmedBear]

BTW, an 870 Express is a great trap gun.

Won't be so great for skeet, but the weight, balance and length of a 12 Gauge Express can work really well for trap.

 

[Knifedaddy84]

Why are O/U and side by sides so expensive compared to pumps or autos? It would appear the doubles are far simpler in terms of design and function.

(Not counting hand-fitted, particular wood, particular maker, customization, engraved models of course where I can see the sky is the limit in terms of price.)

 

[WIFF]

i agree with Milkmaster.

 

[earlthegoat2]

As much as I like these threads the answer is always the same:

Probably have better luck with a cheap semi auto. You will get better quality for the price.

That being said cheap doubles are not to be reckoned with...ever. $1000 or more is what you will have to pay and no crying because that is the truth. Beretta or Browning are top notch new or used.

I went on a quest back in my competition days to find the best double for clay shooting.


I ended up with a semi auto.

 

[ArmedBear]

Why are O/U and side by sides so expensive compared to pumps or autos?

While there are also some aspects of the design that require more machine work, the short answer is that the barrels have to hit the same spot. That's harder than it sounds.

 

[45auto]

Since you didn't detail what's "cheap" for an O/U, I'll say you can buy a good used one like Browning and Beretta for @ $1400...depending of course.

If you go to enough ranges, shoots, etc and notice what people shoot, discounting higher end O/U's, you will see what people buy most, and for good reason.

Ask around, most will gladly discuss their gun purchase. Shoot some if you can and IMHO, don't discount the good new or used auto...Beretta or Remington for less money then the used O/U.

A Browning, durable as it is, can be rendered worthless by shooting it enough, with heavy enough loads, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If they don't think so, they don't have the experience you need someone to have.

Well, I have shot a great many rounds with many guns, including multiple Brownings, and seen a lot of people for many years doing the same. I'm not aware of or have heard of anyone shooting a Browning "worthless". Meaning, it can't be rebuilt. Of course, if you mean by "heavy loads", heavy target loads..which is what I see. No experience with them with hunting loads.

I understand from your many posts that you don't like Brownings, that's okay.
But, to "imply" that a Browning is a "throw-away" gun, is simply not correct. As it relates to someone buying a used one, for example, in this post.

 

[ArmedBear]

But, to "imply" that a Browning is a "throw-away" gun, is simply not correct.

I did NOT imply that.

The Browning Citori and BT-99 are arguably the most durable guns on the market, with maybe the 870 in there, too. Whether I like or dislike their handling characteristics does not change my opinion of their durability.

Just like the "snobbery" thing, it's silly to think that "I don't like the way X shoots" means ANYTHING else but that. I'm sure not the only person who finds a 12 Gauge Citori to be an unwieldy field gun compared to a most other fine shotguns. That does not mean I think they are "disposable."

HOWEVER... You're the kind of person I warned him about. You're telling him, in essence, that there's nothing to worry about if a used gun says "Browning" on it.

You are wrong. I have OWNED a Browning that had been shot to the point of worthlessness, and it had never been anywhere but A TRAP RANGE. (What else would you do with a BT, anyway?)

I was someone who made such a purchasing mistake, because I didn't know any better.

Now it wasn't Browning's fault. And these weren't light target loads. These were "Friday night trap games" loads, and they pounded the gun loose.

I did get it fixed, but only because a friend of mine owns two machine shops that do things like military contract work. As a personal favor to me (and indirectly to the seller, who was also a friend of his) he built up steel with a welding torch, and machined the bloc down to spec again. If I'd had to pay for this work, the gun would have been a throwaway, not worth fixing.

I ended up selling it, but I told the buyer all about it. Not every seller will be so honest.

That does NOT mean I think that BT-99s are weak.

Let me make this clear: it DOES mean, if you're buying a used shotgun, you NEED to be aware of some things. New shotgunners will NOT be aware of these things, and while many used guns are a good deal, some others are being sold because their owners know that they're on their last legs.

The fact that a gun says "Browning" or "Beretta" on it does not guarantee the condition of a gun that has seen use and abuse, and abuse is not always obvious -- especially to the neophyte.

Old Benz sedans are legendary for their longevity. However, if you didn't know a good deal about cars, you'd consult someone who does, before paying for one, right? If you don't know a Browning's history, then the nameplate is no guarantee.

Caveat emptor. Don't get screwed.

That's all.

Whether the OP or anyone else likes a Browning's handling is his/her business. And my own opinion is mine. But I'm not stupid enough to confuse that with its durability, which is well-proven.

 

[ArmedBear]

BTW one more caveat...

My wife an I went on a Jeep tour in Alaska. The Jeeps were noticeably more beat than mine, and mine is older. They're driven by tourists, some of whom have Jeeps at home, but others of whom have never driven anything but a sedan on the city street.

After we'd banged around logging roads and looked at the scenery, I asked one of the guides what they did with the Jeeps when they were through with them.

He said, "They go to a car auction in Seattle. Low mileage. One owner." and laughed.

 

[45auto]

The fact that a gun says "Browning" or "Beretta" on it does not guarantee the condition of a gun that has seen use and abuse, and abuse is not always obvious -- especially to the neophyte.

I agree. All I intended was a "good" used one. That's a general term, but one that isn't worn out.

To be honest, I have no experience with Bt-99's. I see a lot of them, but never shot one, never even "asked about one". If yours needed that much work, not knowing how many rounds through it, I'd be less than happy also.

My comments were pointed towards O/U's, Citori's in general where rebuilds are reasonable...by standards and the round counts should be high before any real rebuilds. You will still spend hundreds of dollars, but they cost upwards of $2500 now. If you buy one one for $1400, and it's "beat", and you have to spend @$400, maybe it wasn't a great deal.

 

[Dirty Dawg]

I bought a new Weatherby (SKB) 20 ga. last year and would recommend this shotgun to anyone. It set me back about $1000. That said, I also bought a Stoeger Condor 20 ga. last year and it's been very reliable and equally accurate as the Weatherby. My son used for dove and trap last year and while I don't imagine it will last as long as the SKB, it serves our needs for the moment. The Stoeger set me back about $300.

Really, it depends on what you have to spend. To some folks, a $1000 shotgun will never be more than a dream. To others, $5,000 on a shotgun is reasonable. In the end, you have to suit yourself.

Good luck.

 

[miekelle]

o/u

alright il break it to u short and simple dont trust anything under $800 maybe even $1000 and cut it short best brand to buy BERETTA , they are great guns . My grandfather brought a beretta that was new in the 70`s and my not a problem the action is tight still ( i remember trying to open it when i was 12 to insert a shell) My father brought another one made in the 60`s it functions fine as it is 40 odd years old . they are both 2/34" one with 30" barrels the other with 28" theyve been sat on and everything they still work fine every duck season we get a chance to shoot we got 6 with one gun last time!

 

[Cuzzin]

jcramin wrote: Im looking for some advice on a cheap Over Under shotgun for Skeet and Trap for me my wife and my son.

Are you looking for a single shotgun that you will all share during a round of skeet or trap?? That will be hard to do unless all of you are the same size - and, could result in a little unsafe gun handling.

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Recently I bought a Browning Cynergy and love it. It was brand new and was less then $1500 with everything else I needed to go shooting. I looked at a lot of cheaper options and the Cynergy just fit me well. Heck I shot 275 rounds out of it today and still love the little beast.

 

[Sauer Grapes]

My dad bought a Browning Lightning 12 ga. in 1969. They gave it a lifetime warranty. Boy, I wonder how many rounds it would take to wear it out? Never shot a jap model, but I hear they are nice.