+P Ammo?

[Nightcrawler]

How many of you prefer +P ammo for self defense? Why or why not?

Speaking specifically of 230 grain .45ACP, does the extra 100 fps or so (850fps standard vs. 950fps) matter much? It does have more kinetic energy, which certainly can't hurt...

But, a hole is a hole, right?

So, what's the scoop?

 

[Jim March]

It depends: is the gun and caliber capable of reliably expanding JHPs without +P?

If the answer is "no" (read: 2" barrel 38!), you should run +P unless the gun just flat cannot sustain *any*. And guns that weak aren't common - early aluminum frames are examples.

On anything else, "it depends".

 

[ACP230]

I won several boxes of .38 Special LSWHP Cor-Bon Plus P while playing trivia at the old Second Chance Bowling Pin Shoot. I use that as my carry load in a Smith M649.

I have carried standard pressure ammo in 9mm and .45 guns occasionally. I also won some 115 and 124 grain 9mm Cor-Bon Plus P at Second Chance and have carried that sometimes also.

 

[Lictalon]

Someone once told me that +P ammo makes good sense when deviating from the barrel length the caliber was originally designed for...so if one goes for a 3 or 4 inch barrel on .45 acp, then +p makes sense...otherwise, the bullet may not penetrate very deeply.

Take it for what it's worth...

 

[Sean Smith]

Minor comment: with hollowpoint bullets, more speed generally = LESS penetration, not more, because you get more bullet expansion sooner. With solid bullets, more speed generally = MORE penetration.

In 9x19, I always use +P or +P+ for self-defense loads. In .45 ACP I don't bother, and in 10mm there is no SAAMI +P spec.

 

[boing]

But, a hole is a hole, right?

Yup.

Standard pressure is fine by me, but I favor penetration anyway.

Less recoil is more better, too. More holes faster that way.

 

[Lennyjoe]

I prefer +P out of my Glock 19.

Actually, Im carrying Federal 124 Gr +P+ JHP Hydra Shoks as we speak

Nuttin wrong with a little extra punch.

 

[Justin]

Is there a certain point at which +P ammo's performance degrades? You're not going to get a lot more velocity from a round if it has exited the barrel before all the powder has had a chance to burn up, right?

Or am I just being loony?

 

[P95Carry]

I think you have a point there Justin .... I mean......... outa a 2" tube ... can't see much benefit ...... unless super fast powder!! I guess Bullseye loads could make the difference but not sure what factory stuff uses.

 

[Majic]

Speaking specifically of 230 grain .45ACP, does the extra 100 fps or so (850fps standard vs. 950fps) matter much? It does have more kinetic energy, which certainly can't hurt...

In .45 caliber I would use standard pressure. Smaller calibers I would consider +P's.

 

[Sean Smith]

Justin,

Actually... not really. Chrono factory .357 Magnum vs. factory .38 Special ammo from a snubby, and the .357 Magnum will still have a BIG ballistic edge, even though the .357 Magnum is loaded with lots of slow-burning powder. Actually, I think somebody recently posted some chrono data of that subject on this forum...?

Of course, shooting a super-light, small revolver in a magnum caliber doesn't hold much attraction for me. But from a strictly "weight of lead at speed" point of view, there is a payoff.

As for .45 ACP... I'd look at it this way: the hollowpoint has a certain range of velocities at which it will expand reliably. Too low, nothing happens. More speed is usually more better (with some exceptions for going way beyond the bullet's design envelope). Adding 100 feet per second would mainly make the expansion more reliable in a wider range of circumstances (longer range shots, shots through barriers, and so forth).

In terms of "power" (kinetic energy, really) you are going from about 370 foot-pounds to 460 foot-pounds at the muzzle in the case of 230gr standard pressure vs. 230gr +P. 9x19 +P+ can get to around 450 ft-lbs, by the way. And for the guys keeping score, factory 10mm loads routinely get over 600 ft-lbs within SAAMI standard pressure specs.

So for .45 ACP, going to +P doesn't hold much attraction for me... the recoil is starting to feel like 10mm, but without being in the ballistic ballpark. On the other hand, maybe I'm wierd but even 9x19 in +P+ feels about the same as +P or standard loads, so from a shootability point of view having 15+1 shots with more muzzle energy than a standard .45 ACP and a flatter trajectory makes 9x19 a much more creditable proposition than people give it credit for.

So having said all that, I think that in any caliber the advent of more modern bullet designs has made the need for brute speed to get your hollowpoint working alot less pressing than it was, say, 20 years ago, when some magnum & 10mm loads weren't reliable expanders at 1,300+ feet per second.



Making a long story short(er), more speed more better if you can swing it without any problems. Otherwise, just get a modern hollowpoint load & don't worry about it.

 

[C.R.Sam]

"Is there a certain point at which +P ammo's performance degrades? You're not going to get a lot more velocity from a round if it has exited the barrel before all the powder has had a chance to burn up, right?"...Justin

Let us not lose sight of the fact that the term +P refers to PEAK pressure and not projectile performance.
Or...specifically...+P designation means that the peak pressure is greater than SAAMI norm for a particular cartridge, but no more than 10 percent greater.

Usually, +P loads will give greater projectile performance than normal loads, but not necessairily.

Comes down to what a particular load will do in YOUR gun, and whether that performance is what YOU desire.

There are many instances where a given bullet will gain more velocity/energy from the same gun, with LOWER Peak pressure, by merely changing powders.

For a gross example of the above; check the 125gr .357 loads in the Winchester loading data. A load generating 10,000 lbs LESS pressure generates far greater velocity than the adjacent load...same bullet, same test gun.

Sam

 

[Sean Smith]

I was going to say that, but figured I'd already typed too much as it was.

Peak pressures in and of themselves don't dictate your ballistics. Actually, they are only vaguely related to each other. But having said that, factory +P loads are almost always loads developed for better ballistics that have higher peak pressure as a side-effect.

 

[Lennyjoe]

Welcome back C.R.Sam.

Thats the most I've seen you type in a long time.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

My carry gun is a .38 Special S&W M-640 (no dash). My favored load is the 158 grain LSWCHP +P (the "FBI load"). It seems to be the one round that there's no controversy over.

My home defense gun is a 4" S&W Model 28 .357. Since I don't want to deal with the blast and flash of a .357 in a home defense situation, it is also stoked with FBI loads. I guess in this gun it would be a "-P".

 

[SnWnMe]

I (now) keep two handguns ready in the household.

625: 230 Hydra Shok
I felt that the full weight HS would be better than any lightweight +P 45.

442: 125 Golden Saber + P
It was the only premium load they had that day I went to buy non COR-BON rounds.