P320 strikers again!
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Styx
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Yes, he is very lucky. After report after report for different unrelated sources about these guns going off by themselves, I don't know why people keep changing it.
I am always a little leary of DAO pistols that get redesigned for Striker fire pre cocked mechanisms. Seen it go bad quite a few times...Taurus, FMK etc. This pistol kinda built around the P250 so I am not suprised there have been some issues.
What is suprising is that they are still having different issues when its been vetted so much.
Could be a fluke but you would think if the reset spring was faulty and the FP stuck it would have slam fired. Maybe I am missing something. Someone with a P320 might be able to explain this. I dont own one of these.
Sounds kinda like the striker slipped of the sear while in the holster to me
Alllen Bundy
Member
How can a P320s fire un-commanded? AKA P320 fires while in its holster? - by Grey Wolf Armory - Aug 26, 2020
P320 - PRE v. POST UPGRADE ANALYSIS (2022) - by SIG MECHANICS - Dec 19, 2021
Sig Sauer P320 striker removal, disassembly, cleaning and reassembly - by Sig Guy - Jun 30, 2019
It's a lot more complicated than my P365. That complexity is also likely to make it more vulnerable to malfunctions of various kinds.
AlexanderA
Member
Wouldn't the manual safety in the M17 version resolve this issue?
Nice video. Way to delicate and close to the edge IMO. Kind of suprises me people are carrying these let alone a military contract (even with the safety). Best simple solution is for sig to bring back the P250. I wouldnt trust one of these p320s for carry with that design. Even a 1911 cocked with the safety off would seemingly be more safe (grip safety still in effect) than one of these P320s sans the manual safety.
Sig excuse for the reset spring and seemingly denial that there is a problem is concerning. That sear engagement doesnt impress me a whole lot either for a Combat/Carry pistol. LE need to be carrying the P250 IMO. Theres not a darn thing wrong with a DAO semi auto I dont care what fad is in vogue.
Sig excuse for the reset spring and seemingly denial that there is a problem is concerning. That sear engagement doesnt impress me a whole lot either for a Combat/Carry pistol. LE need to be carrying the P250 IMO. Theres not a darn thing wrong with a DAO semi auto I dont care what fad is in vogue.
Thats likely the only thing that got it through the military trials. Still too close to the razors edge IMO. I prefer to have a bit more leeway but thats me. These look to have as much leeway of a hair trigger bullseye pistol in terms of practical carry.
Honestly...unless I am missing something, a chambered hi-point is safer than these. And I dont consider that a safe practice at all. Sig needs to recall these from what I can tell.
More sear engagement... Better design on that FP block, Longer trigger. I would not even trust a trigger safety to solve this with what appears to be going on. Thats a clean pistol he is showing in that video. You start introducing carbon, caked up solvents, dirt, sand etc and thats just begging for something bad to happen.
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sgt127
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I carry appendix all the time. A P239 in 9mm or another in 357 SIG. Both have the DAK trigger. Or, a revolver.
For me, there is something inherently dangerous about a gun, pointed at my body, that has enough stored energy to fire. Period.
It doesn’t matter what kind of internal safeties it has. Or, even a manual safety.
With a DA Pistol, I am supplying the energy for the gun TO fire.
With the striker guns, or single action guns. I am relying on the mechanism for the gun NOT to fire.
Willing to risk it on my right hip. I’ve carried Colt 1911’s for 20 years and a Glock for 15 years. A crease in my butt cheek or outside of my thigh is survivable if everything goes wrong. My Femoral artery is not as forgiving.
For me, there is something inherently dangerous about a gun, pointed at my body, that has enough stored energy to fire. Period.
It doesn’t matter what kind of internal safeties it has. Or, even a manual safety.
With a DA Pistol, I am supplying the energy for the gun TO fire.
With the striker guns, or single action guns. I am relying on the mechanism for the gun NOT to fire.
Willing to risk it on my right hip. I’ve carried Colt 1911’s for 20 years and a Glock for 15 years. A crease in my butt cheek or outside of my thigh is survivable if everything goes wrong. My Femoral artery is not as forgiving.
Agree 100%
Sig really letting me down on this one. I expect a LOT more from them. They are not stupid and a top tier manufacturer. I can see this with a small newbie company but not someone like Sig. FMK had a simliar issue concerning drop safeties when they went and modified the DAO triggers to also offer the pistols in SA type striker fire but they were quick to recall and fix the problem. Thats a small start up with limited resources. Its kind of a shock that these P320s are still on the market. They need to get a handle on things FAST IMO. It kind of looks like they just use band aid fixes on the P320. A carry sidearm should not be that sensative ..safety or not.
On a side not it looks like Benchmade knives can do a better job of protecting yourself and providing an level of safety than a Sig P320 so there is a silver lining in all this. Benchmade should capitalize on this and make that gentleman a part of the team.
Maybe someone will design an OWB holster for the Sig P320 with a leg shield/guard. Integrate some sort of fancy bullet trap into it.
Kind of suprising the revamped P320 survived the drop tests. They must have been dropping really clean pistols.
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FL-NC
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Another good reason for me to stick with Glock. My former unit decided to stay with them too instead of picking these things up. I had an opportunity on a good deal on one of these Sigs a couple of months ago and I passed. I will continue to do so- just too many issues keep coming up with them- the reputation of those guns has been ruined for me. No coming back.
Engineering and innovation should be used to simplify mechanical devices. The least amount of moving parts to do a job reliably is what I look for. I owned an updated p320 for a while and it was “ok” but I wasn’t impressed with the over-complication engineered into to the thing. I traded it after a couple of months.
I’m sure there are some BS accusations against Sig but I do believe there are problems with the p320. I’ll go ahead and pile on. I don’t want anything to do with Sig. They have the feel of big government, maybe because they’re SO good at working with big government.(overcomplicated, release a flawed product, denial, deflect, denial)
I’m sure there are some BS accusations against Sig but I do believe there are problems with the p320. I’ll go ahead and pile on. I don’t want anything to do with Sig. They have the feel of big government, maybe because they’re SO good at working with big government.(overcomplicated, release a flawed product, denial, deflect, denial)
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Wow I didnt know there were so many that dislike Sig Sauer. I like the company for the most part just not what they are doing with this particular pistol and its issues. I thought the P250 was a nice pistol. People just couldnt get over the DAO trigger for whatever reason. Not tactical enough I guess. Sig still does a lot of stuff right so I will defend them a bit.
The overcomplicated engeneering is just a stubborn German thing. If I had to pick a gripe with the company it would probably be the retail prices...again..a German thing. By German thing I mean German Firearms designers. Their people are not stupid though. Seems like this P320 stuff is a big mess but it happens. Crazy its gotten this far and still having issues IMO. Its quickly becoming Taurus like.
Maybe thats where the marketing team should take this...... "Meet the SIG SAUER P320.... the most expensive Taurus you will ever own!" - Sig Sauer does not accept responsibility for the safey of this product.
A little Humor there.
Im sure they will get things worked out soon enough. To bad there was not video footage of this P320 just going off in the holster. That would have rattled some cages at Sig once it went viral. People would do best to pull these until things get ironed out IMO. No need for someone to shoot themselves or someone else unintentionally. There are a whole lot of other pistols out there that are safe...oceans of them.
The overcomplicated engeneering is just a stubborn German thing. If I had to pick a gripe with the company it would probably be the retail prices...again..a German thing. By German thing I mean German Firearms designers. Their people are not stupid though. Seems like this P320 stuff is a big mess but it happens. Crazy its gotten this far and still having issues IMO. Its quickly becoming Taurus like.
Maybe thats where the marketing team should take this...... "Meet the SIG SAUER P320.... the most expensive Taurus you will ever own!" - Sig Sauer does not accept responsibility for the safey of this product.
A little Humor there.
Im sure they will get things worked out soon enough. To bad there was not video footage of this P320 just going off in the holster. That would have rattled some cages at Sig once it went viral. People would do best to pull these until things get ironed out IMO. No need for someone to shoot themselves or someone else unintentionally. There are a whole lot of other pistols out there that are safe...oceans of them.
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The_Quartermaster
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LMAO
Well... hang on there. Its not like Glock has not had incidents. Sounds like you are well trained and have a real feel for Glocks but most people dont have that. I think those rear plate striker control devices should be standard on every Glock sold. Maybe thow in a standard OEM rear cover plate for an inexpensive option. Also would not kill Glock to offer a manual thumb safety model. Glock is stubborn too though... Austrian thing. Must have crossed the border way back when.
WrongHanded
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I'll jump in on this too.
I used to be a big fan of Sig pistols. But over the past several years, I've seen and read too much about the failures (spontaneous discharges) of the P320 to have any confidence in today's Sig Sauer. They have had ample opportunity to do the right thing, and have chosen time and again to do the profitable thing instead. It's shameful really.
I used to be a big fan of Sig pistols. But over the past several years, I've seen and read too much about the failures (spontaneous discharges) of the P320 to have any confidence in today's Sig Sauer. They have had ample opportunity to do the right thing, and have chosen time and again to do the profitable thing instead. It's shameful really.
Alllen Bundy
Member
The hallmark of an excellent design is "elegant simplicity". It's easy to make a complicated design to get the job done. It's an art to make it simple.
I've worked for 7 different manufacturers over my career and I've developed a healthy skepticism. Only 1 out of 7 of those manufacturers I would consider ethical. I've seen companies do dishonest, unethical, stupid, and dangerous things.
I don't know if Sig is any more or less ethical than any other gun manufacturer. But they are NOT transparent. When I asked them if they had done any manual chambering testing on the P365, they refused to tell me. Having done product safety testing for a living where we shared ALL of our test data, this is especially disturbing.
I see talk of broken P320 extractors online and there is at least one aftermarket extractor being manufactured. This suggests that there is also an issue with the P320 extractor design. I would be very hesitant to manually chamber a P320. I consider the ability to safely manually chamber a self defense pistol MANDATORY!
My P365 has a much simpler striker and striker safety design, which I have reason to believe is more reliable than the P320. Even if inertia moved the spring loaded striker safety out of the way, it appears that it will spring back into the safe position faster than the heavier striker can move forward. Granted, it DOES require you to keep the striker safety clean. I check the striker safety for free movement every time I remove the slide.
The P365 also has a simpler pivoting extractor design. I have only seen two photos of broken extractors and these extractors had a very high round count, and one of these extractors was the older design. I can safely manually chamber my P365 all day long without damage to the extractor. I even used the most extreme manual chambering method and let the slide slam onto the round 1,830 times without any apparent damage to the extractor.
These are two very different firearms from the same manufacturer. It's no different than Chevy making both the Chevette and the Corvette.
I've completely disassembled my P365, have seen how it works and I am fairly comfortable with it's design.
The P320-XTEN looked promising. But after seeing the P320 striker design and the P320 extractor design, I'm not comfortable with those designs.
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TomJ
Contributing Member
I'm not aware of the P365 or P365XL having these issues. Is that correct?
Its off puting and frustrating ... I get that. I am not ready to throw in the towel on Sig just yet though. Lets see how they handle this. P365 had issues as well until they got things sorted out. Mt favorites are of course the classic sigs but they have not all been dogs. Seems pretty clear the P320 was rushed all around. Also seems pretty clear Sig has a beta testing problem. History has had lots of Military contract pistols get revamped due to various issues... even Beretta after some serious torture testing. Beretta has also had their fair share of dogs like everyone else so there is that as well.
Will I get a P320... doubtful. SA Strikers dont appeal to me much unless they do something unique (10mm version maybe). I do want a P250 at some point though. The P365 9mm doesnt interest me either but the 380acp version does. I am not one to abandon companies because they have a problem here and there...it happens. Mt experience is the smaller companies are much easier to deal with (especially American ones) so it does not suprise me about the lack of transparency. Getting the head designer or tech on the phone at sig I could see being next to impossible and anybody lower level is going to be scared to say anything IF they even understand what you are asking. It took 1 phone call to FMK and about 2 minutes for them to connect me with the designer of their pistol to answer technical questions for me and he was fantastic. Then the service rep bent over backwards with anything I needed. That to me earned a LOT of customer loyalty and I will promote them whenever I can. BUT... that is a small American Company. Its the equivilent of going to your favorite small gun shop where they know you well and going to Academy. Its just an entirely different compny with an entirely different mindset.
Sig Sauer is concerned about Military and LE/Security contracts. If thats the firearms people are drawn to then thats just what you have to accept in terms of your concerns. They are not an American company so the whole RKBA among the populace is always going to be on the backburner as opposed to say Smith and Wesson. Now... I dont agree with that of course but I dont get to make the decisions at Sig Sauer.... wouldnt want to either. So people can get crazy and ticked off at Sig but thats the price you have to accept if you are going to give them your business. If that puts you off then the best thing to do is support and promote another company.
As a fan of almost all things firearms wise I admit that I dont like to bash companies because when they are gone.. they take a lot of good stuff with them and nobody wins with that in the long run. We basically would not have any frearms manufacturers left. I will critisize as constructivly as possible but abandoning is not my thing. I dont want to see anyone close their doors. We need the big boys just as much as the smaller start ups. I push buy American because keeping our domestic firearms manufacturing strong is critical IMO for the long run and I want all people (My continueing family bloodline especially!) to enjoy firearms ownership and the RKBA long after I am gone. There will be no "America" if firearms are gone from the populace.
I hope Sig get a handle on this... really. Best thing people could do right now is to stop buying P320s and bombard them with letters and emails explaining why. It looks to be a serious issue from everything I have seen so far so at some point Sig will be forced to address it. Right now I have a hunch they are working the numbers and trying to come up with some sort of solution. I would think the first thing to do NOW would be to at least pull the P320 sans safety from the market. If the gentleman in the video is being Honest he is doing a great service to us bringing his experience to light even though Im sure his hate mail box if pretty full by now which would be pretty dumb. He could easily be in the Hospital right now trying to recover looking at a long rehab in front of him but he literally dodge a bullet. We can all feel good about that.
So step it up Sig! People are taking notice.
Not that I am aware of. P365 issues have been ironed out. You should be all set.
Alllen Bundy
Member
No drop firing issues or other unintended firing issues that I am aware of.
Early on Sig did change the extractor design. From what I could tell, the modification would make it easier to manually chamber a round and more reliably extract a round from the firing chamber.
No extractor failure malfunction issues that I am aware of. But if you polish the leading beveled edge of the extractor it makes manual chambering easier.
Sig changed the shape of the disconnector. Not sure if there was a problem or not.
These are the actual issues that I am aware of:
Early production had a batch of bad strikers allegedly improperly heat treated with firing pins that would break off. Appears to be only one bad batch of strikers. Not an issue with present production.
Primer drag. Not sure if this actually caused any malfunctions, but Sig redesigned the striker firing pin with a beveled tip that appears to cure the issue. Not an issue with present production.
There was an aftermarket company making CNC milled strikers, but they also had quality control issues.
Light primer strikes. This was caused by a one piece retaining bushing that was too thick. It can be cured by using the original two piece retainer bushing, or by sanding one side of the one piece retainer bushing. Not an issue with present production.
Failure to return to battery malfunction. Mostly due to friction issues because the breechface, the left adjacent wall to the breechface, and the underside of the striker claw were too rough. The brass shell cases will eventually polish the steel after many thousands of rounds fired. But if you don't want an extended break-in period, wet sanding with ultra fine sandpaper will cure the issue quickly.
Trigger grittiness. Continues to be an issue. However, most the the grittiness greatly reduces during the break-in period. Or you can polish the trigger linkage contact points and make the trigger pull very smoothly without going through a break-in period. This polishing does NOT affect the required trigger pull force and it does NOT affect the action of the trigger. It only makes it very smooth.
VERY difficult to retract the slide over a magazine loaded to capacity. Not sure how widespread the issue is, but other people have reported the same problem. The problem is cured with less than 10 minutes of wet sanding of the rough stripper rail with ultra fine sandpaper.
The recoil spring is only rated for 2,500 rounds. ISMI uses a more reliable manufacturing process for the recoil spring and they rate their springs for 5,000 rounds
The recoil spring can coil over itself and jam with as little as 200 rounds fired. I don't know how widespread the issue is. My solution was to use an aftermarket guide rod using an ISMI flat coil recoil spring which by design makes it impossible for the recoil spring to coil over itself. I carry with the ISMI recoil spring with a very low round count and practice with the original Sig recoil spring installed.
The web between your thumb and forefinger can catch on the corners of the XL beavertail during a draw. The cure is to wet sand a mild radius into the corners of the beavertail so that even if you grab the handgrip at the wrong angle, the web between your thumb and forefinger just glides over the beavertail. This sanding has no negative effects.
If the sear spring tangs are too short, or if someone incorrectly installs the sear spring, it will still work correctly. HOWEVER, if you remove the FCU parts can fall off. If the sear spring tangs are the correct length and the sear spring was installed correctly, you can remove the FCU and violently shake it and the parts will not fall off because there is spring loading on the parts.
Everything else is a personal preference issue.
I would have no hesitation buying a P365 series pistol today. The polishing work that I have outlined I just consider part of the break-in procedure. After all, this is not a hand finished $5,000 pistol. It's a $500 production pistol.
HPCadm17
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I've seen the video detailing the mechanism in the P320, and that inspired me to trade it in. Too many possible points of failure, and tolerances must be very precise. I can see normal wear over time causing malfunctions. No thanks.
I've carried Glocks AIWB after vetting them for several hundred rounds, and never worried about unintended discharges. I'm careful to always holster first before returning it to the belt which eliminates 99% of ND's with these. But I'm still carrying a loaded weapon with stored energy in the firing mechanism.
By far my preference for AIWB is DA/SA. Load, de-cock, thumb the hammer on the way into the holster. Trigger has to travel quite a distance to disengage the FP safety. The only way my P229 is going off is if I pull the trigger all the way back.
I've carried Glocks AIWB after vetting them for several hundred rounds, and never worried about unintended discharges. I'm careful to always holster first before returning it to the belt which eliminates 99% of ND's with these. But I'm still carrying a loaded weapon with stored energy in the firing mechanism.
By far my preference for AIWB is DA/SA. Load, de-cock, thumb the hammer on the way into the holster. Trigger has to travel quite a distance to disengage the FP safety. The only way my P229 is going off is if I pull the trigger all the way back.
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