PA halting sales of ALL firearms on Labor Day for 5 days..

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Well PA has decided that the insta check system has to be upgraded and they
think the last big summer holiday of the season is the perfect time..Wow !

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-a1_5guns.6003599aug21,0,5104828.story?coll=all_tab01_layout
excerpt

Pennsylvania's firearms dealers are fuming over a planned state police computer upgrade that would halt all gun sales for five days starting on the busy Labor Day weekend.

Police plan to shut down the Pennsylvania Instant Check System at 6 p.m. Sept. 2 and restart it at noon Sept. 6. No firearms may be sold anywhere in the state during the shutdown, because state and federal laws require all gun buyers to pass a criminal background check through PICS.

''It just seems like the worst possible timing was picked as far as retailers are concerned,'' said Chris O'Hara, promotions manager at Bass Pro Shops in Harrisburg. ''Labor Day weekend is a big gun sale weekend. Nobody is at
work on Monday, and it's the beginning of early dove and goose [hunting] seasons.''

Making matters even worse, O'Hara said, is that Bass Pro has scheduled its largest sale of the year, the Fall Hunting Classic, for Sept. 1-9 and spent thousands of dollars printing a 48-page, color flier that includes dozens of firearms that will be for sale. For example, the flier promotes a one-day special for Sept. 6 that offers an $850 pistol for $499.

''I'll have people lined up outside my store Thursday morning wanting to buy these,'' said O'Hara, who predicts the shutdown will cost his store several hundred gun sales. ''It's going to be very, very hard for
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What a direct slap in the face to a legal commerce..
 
Wouldn't this make for good grounds for a suit basing these checks as an infringement? Any lawyers willing to chime in?
 
And if they can shut it down for 5 days for upgrades, what about when they will have to shut it down for 10 days? How about 30 days?
 
Anyone actually going to try buying a gun that day, be denied, get IN WRITING the reason for the denial, then take it to court? Or at least make the attempt & gather the documents, and let us pick 'em apart on this thread (by what laws is the suspension invoked? why are those laws not valid?).

The one argument I see against that for the moment is that most RKBA cases are likely on hold until DC vs. Heller is resolved. Once that comes up pro-individual-right, it should be a slam-dunk (along with ten thousand other individual laws that also need addressing the same way).
 
PA law allows for disregard of the PICS check if it's down for 48 hours or more (dealers are allowed to make sales based on NICS after that point, and have a legal defense). the PSP doesn't like to point that out.
 
The one argument I see against that for the moment is that most RKBA cases are likely on hold until DC vs. Heller is resolved. Once that comes up pro-individual-right, it should be a slam-dunk (along with ten thousand other individual laws that also need addressing the same way).
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I hope you're right.
 
PA CCP does not bypass PICS because it does not tie in with a federal check when you get your PA concealed carry permit therefore the Feds won't allow the bypass.
 
I'd say it leaves the state open for two separate class action suits, and numerous individuals. The would-be buyers could sue based on constitutional grounds. The retailers could sue collectively and jointly based on their losses, especially Bass Pro Shops. They were not given adequate notice so their ad could be rewritten, which often requires up to 6 months advance notice, as some places design their ads that far in advance.

This does sound like someone deciding to screw gun owners. No one with a brain would schedule this maintainance over a notorious sales holiday weekend. If NICS can back up the state system, the state should have let FFLs know.

There is a lawsuit in there somewhere, and maybe a way to change the system for the better, as long as no part of it sets precedence for collective right. I would throw some inqiries to the Attorney General for the state about what the retailers can do to save their profits and see where that leads.
 
Thanks General

I know that federal law says something to the effect that the NICS system has a limited amount of time to deny a purchase. If it fails to do so within that time the sale may proceed even if the computer is down. At least thats my understanding. It sounds like Pa law has a similar provision. Can you expand on that for us?
 
They could upgrade a parallel system, test it, and then move it into production if they were at all interested in not interfering in peoples lives.
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Simple to say but very difficult to actually do.

My guess is no one really thought it would be that big of a deal and picked a Holiday weekend because that is when virtually all such computer upgrades are done. In most cases, a 3 day weekend is the least offensive time to do such upgrades.
 
Actually its very simple, the system has to give you a procede or Deny within 48 hours if they cant you take the gun home. Its written in the federal law. so they can sell guns on the second fill out all the paper work, and on sept 4 the customer can come get his gun. Its a 48 hour waiting period.
 
Mak, the federal law says an FFL can proceeed with a sale after no reply is given within three business days. On a holiday, this is 4-7 days, depending on where the holiday falls in the week. I know some poor schmuck has to sit at a desk and take the calls on holidays, but the real examiners likely get the day off and if the call needs to be bumped to them for any reason, expect to be delayed.

Believe me, there is a lot of money to be lost in this situation by Bass Pro Shops and other retailers. If they have a sale, and can't do the transfers because the system is down, they'll have to hold all of the guns and call them in after the system comes back up. The people don't go home with the gun (bad if they're from outa state), the store doesn't make any money until the people pick them up, and many will simply refuse to buy because of the inconvenience.
Figure 500 guns (maybe low number?) at average $500..that's $250,000 to be lost because the state drops the ball. Even NICS has a back-up. I phoned in one during a building fire-drill and someone processed it.

This is an example of the system failing to meet it's supposed design. It's not supposed to infronge on rights, or inconvenience anyone but the criminals.

I think the system needs to take a hike for some long needed fresh air.
 
I could just see my boss's reaction if I told him that I was taking our whole network down for 5 minutes let alone 5 days. This just doesn't happen in real world IT infrastructure. I would be out looking for a new job faster than I could blink. :banghead:

The next thing we as PA residents will hear is good old uncle Ed saying that he has to raise taxes again due to the lost revenue from this 5 day system outage. They charge $6 for each insta-check pass or fail. :barf:

I know somebody mentioned it before but something needs to be done for CCW holders to be able to skip this expense every time. At least run my permit number against something so that I don't have to fill out the stupid paperwork.
 
Got this email from NRA-ILA. Apparently NRA is trying to do something about this and needs our help by bombarding the Governor's office with disapproving emails.

Pennsylvania PICS System Shut Down for Maintenance!
Please Contact Governor Rendell Today to Voice Your Disapproval!

The Pennsylvania State Police have notified us of its intent to shut down the Pennsylvania Instant Check System (PICS) from 6:00 PM Sunday, September 2, until 12:00 noon on Thursday, September 6. While we understand and appreciate the need to upgrade the system’s hardware and software, we believe any maintenance should be done during non-business hours so that it does not inconvenience or interfere with a law-abiding citizen’s right to purchase a firearm.

NRA is working with the Pennsylvania State Police, members of the State Legislature, and the Attorney General to resolve this matter.

Please contact Governor Ed Rendell (D) today and respectfully urge him to postpone the maintenance until PICS can perform the needed maintenance without interfering with a law-abiding citizen’s right to purchase a firearm. Governor Rendell can be reached at (717) 787-2500 or visit http://sites.state.pa.us/PA_Exec/Governor/govmail.html to send him an email.
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I just called the NRA and they couldn't give me an informed answer regarding what they intend to do in Pennsylvania. Frankly, I think they should have a team of attorneys all over this to file injunctions to prevent the stoppage.

This sets a bad precedent in regards to the computerized background check. The next thing you know, states will want to shut it down for "weekly maintenance" on weekends (and effectively eliminate gun shows) and in the middle of the Christmas shopping season (effectively ruining gun dealers chance of being able to run a succesful business).

There should be absolutely no reason why the state couldn't set up a parallel system and then do the changeover in a matter of hours, not days.

I realize that I'm down in Texas and this won't have much direct effect on me, but as I said, the precedent that this sets is very bad and the NRA has no excuse for "dilly-dallying" on it.
 
Well the catch is, last time I checked, the NRA supports background checks so I doubt they'd actually do anything about this at all. If they do still take that stance and then get involved with this, they're hypocrites.

As much as I hate to say it, we need an attorney.

Failing that, I like the idea of going down there and trying to buy a gun so you can get the reason for the rejection in writing and taking that to court.
 
I don't think you could sue because you could technically buy the gun (therefore not interfering in commerce) you just can't take it home.
 
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