Paging Varminterror: can you break down the 6mms for us?

[Walkalong]

I still have some of Barts bullets from years ago.

 

[Varminterror]

I never dreamed that many rounds were shot at a match.

Yup, 10 stages per day and 10 rounds per stage, that’s 100rnds per match day.

Works out mathematically - 10 stages set up, 50-80 shooters at a Regional match means 6-10 shooters in 8-10 squads, figure about 4-5 minutes per shooter per stage, about a minute to address the stage and start, 2 minutes on the clock, a couple minutes to police brass, and onto the next shooter. So you shoot your turn, spot for the other ~7 guys which takes about a half hour to 40min, shoot again, do that 10 times and you have ~5-6hrs of shooting. Add in zero board, DOPE confirmation, and velocity check time, then safety briefing, and finally distribution of the shooters into squads and onto their stages, you have a 7-8hr day, with ~100-125 rounds fired.

 

[JmacD]

Yup, 10 stages per day and 10 rounds per stage, that’s 100rnds per match day.

Works out mathematically - 10 stages set up, 50-80 shooters at a Regional match means 6-10 shooters in 8-10 squads, figure about 4-5 minutes per shooter per stage, about a minute to address the stage and start, 2 minutes on the clock, a couple minutes to police brass, and onto the next shooter. So you shoot your turn, spot for the other ~7 guys which takes about a half hour to 40min, shoot again, do that 10 times and you have ~5-6hrs of shooting. Add in zero board, DOPE confirmation, and velocity check time, then safety briefing, and finally distribution of the shooters into squads and onto their stages, you have a 7-8hr day, with ~100-125 rounds fired.

That’s a big part of the reason a six creed or a fast 243 would be more at home as a hunting rifle in my economical way of thinking I know a number of hunting rifles that have lived long and happy lives that probably haven’t had 125 rounds put through them in 20+ years.
How do you factor in barrel break in? Do you have a specific number of rounds or a approximate Guesstimate do you use and subtract from barrel life? If you already answered, that question, I apologize.

 

[JFrank]

Must be logged in

Sorry, I’d forgotten about that part.
The synopsis is 6 mm are quite popular.

 

[Varminterror]

How do you factor in barrel break in? Do you have a specific number of rounds or an approximate Guesstimate do you use and subtract from barrel life?

Personally, I do one of two methods:

1) Load about 25 break in and fouling rounds, then a 24-30rnd load development test, shoot those in that order, find a node and load 110 rounds for a 1 day Regional match, expecting to need to wipe off ~.2mrad by the end of the day, and then do the same ~24rnd load development again after the match. So I get >150 rounds on the barrel through the prelim test plus the match, then I can come back to load development to see how much velocity shifted and confirm or correct my nodes. I prefer this option because it allows me to get better utility out of the “break in rounds” than the other option I use.

2) If I don’t have a 1 day match scheduled and need to change a barrel before a 2 day match (like I am this week), then I load the same 25 foulers plus 24-30rnd prelim load dev test, then 100 rounds of practice ammo, and go practice with my break in rounds. Again, revisiting the 24rnd test to confirm my node before loading ~225-250 rounds for the 2 day match.

For a hunting or plinking rifle, say I only have 100pc of brass for it: I’ll shoot the 25 foulers, 24-30 round load dev, then load the rest of the cases with the node load. When those are all spent, I’ll check the node again with 24rnds, knowing the barrel still isn’t quite stabilized, then load the rest in that node. Gets me to about 200rnds with only 75 of them committed to fouling and load development. And that could take two or three seasons to burn up. BUT… admittedly, if I’m hunting with a rifle, I’m shooting more than 125rnds in 20yrs - I want to have the rifle out and practice at least 3 or 4 times before season, and usually would shoot 20 rounds in each practice session…

But yeah, it sucks having ~180rnds committed to load dev and break in for each barrel, when they only last 1200 rounds… BUT… a hunting rifle can get away with velocity slip which I can’t tolerate in my match rifles. I could take a 6 Creed to 2500 rounds, or more, if I were just hunting.

 

[gotboostvr]

I could take a 6 Creed to 2500 rounds, or more, if I were just hunting.

I think that's the more realistic number for the majority of people, and would last them their whole lives hunting and plinking.

But they see the "as little as 1000rds" mentioned by match shooters and get scared off a cartridge that would have served them well.

 

[rdnktrkr]

I've bought used hunting rifles with part of the original box of shells, one had 8 fired (Howa 1500 30-06), another had 19 (Remington 700 30-06), I would love to find more like them but they are getting harder and harder to find.

 

[Varminterror]

I've bought used hunting rifles with part of the original box of shells, one had 8 fired (Howa 1500 30-06), another had 19 (Remington 700 30-06)

When my adopted brother turned 15, his biological grandpa gave him a full box plus a handful of rounds he had left for his Pre-64 Win 70 in 270win... He'd bought 5 boxes when he bought the rifle new when he got back from the Army in something around 1958-1960 if I recall. He'd shot the rifle less than 80 rounds in over 40 years through the rifle...

What a sad existence for such a wonderful rifle.

Shoot your damned rifles!!

 

[Walkalong]

When my adopted brother turned 15, his biological grandpa gave him a full box plus a handful of rounds he had left for his Pre-64 Win 70 in 270win... He'd bought 5 boxes when he bought the rifle new when he got back from the Army in something around 1958-1960 if I recall. He'd shot the rifle less than 80 rounds in over 40 years through the rifle...

What a sad existence for such a wonderful rifle.

Shoot your damned rifles!!

Lol, that's our (Mine an yours) perspective today, but things were different back then. One didn't "waste" ammo.

 

[stillquietvoice]

can't agree more I hate how some cartridges get designated as being for kids or women, and now seems the 243 is becoming the old man's rifle since a lot of older hunters are using then since they can't handle much more recoil. I know more then a few guys my dad included that where able to get out hunting because the low recoil of the 243.

I'm one of them, 233 win got me back into hunting and shooting sports. Injury and subsequent surgery made the old stan bys 12 GA, 3006, and 7mm rem mag just hurt too much, thought I was done until I bought a used 243 win.

I'm getting better with higher recoi levels like 280 ai even tried out @troy fairweather 6.5 prc this past summer. My second 243 win gas a new home with my granddaughter who loves punching steel at 300 meters.

 

[Nature Boy]

Shoot your damned rifles!!

Here, here!!

 

[kmw1954]

Well, well, well. After 4 pages and 86 replies I have found this discussion very interesting and informative. This thread along with a couple others I have been following here and elsewhere I have no firmly decided that this summer I will be chambering my new barrel in the 6 ARC from a 223 for my league rifle.

My original thoughts were to barrel this with a 6BR when I found the action to build this rifle, that was until I found locally a brand new Savage take-off Model 12 233 Varmint barrel for just $100.00.. It has done a remarkable job for me but just gives up too much when up against the 6mm shooters.

I then while shooting this I had considered re-barreling it a match grade 223 and arguing with myself to once again move up to a 6mm. So my mind keeps going back and forth between the 223, 6BR and the 6ARC. So then over this past year with reading and researching more and more of the 6ARC I have started buying tooling for the ARC to move that way because first of all I already have 200pcs of once fired brass that was gifted from a friend. Second, when I bought the action it was a barreled receiver in 243 so it came with a bolt that would work with the 6BR. But when I moved to the 223 I had to buy another bolt head for the 223 and at the time Gun Shack also had the bolt head for the 6ARC so I bought that too. So even then I was covered for either the 223, 6BR and the 6ARC.

Then while sourcing tooling and brass for both the 6BR and the 6ARC it came to the point that 6BR brass was near impossible to find and when it is found it is pretty pricey. Next came reloading dies and again faced the same thing. 6BR almost always unavailable, out-of-stock, or again very pricey. Neck were head space go-no go gauges. Couldn't find anyone that had the 6BR available and only a couple places that had the 6ARC available so I ordered them. Lastly I use the Lee Quick Trim cutter and die and they offer the 6ARC die but not the BR die. So after all this, these reasons helped me decide to go 6ARC.

Again after doing a lot of reading and other research I determined that at least for me and the game it will be used for ,100 to 300yd small fine targets, I will not be giving up very much to the other 6mm like the 6BR Norma, 6BRA or the 6Dasher. Even after talking with a couple other league shooters that are using in 6mm they are both using lower node rounds and just finished reading an article about a large competition that the top shooters were also shooting lower nodes. Besides this will provide an opportunity to compare this 6mm to what I was shooting in the 223.

 

[12Bravo20]

The more I shoot my 6 ARC AR the more I like the round. @kmw1954 I think you made a good choice and you will be happy with the 6 ARC. And since you will be shooting it from a bolt action, you will be able to load the round a little hotter if needed.

 

[high country]

Definitely post as you experiment with the 6ARC @kmw1954. I was also torn between 6ARC and 6BR for a 6mm bolt action build, and decided on 6 ARC. Waiting patienty for my barrel...

 

[JFrank]

There’s a reason why one was easier to source than the other.
I attached the equipment list from the BR nationals held just a few days ago and I can tell you with certainty there is not one competitor shooting a 6 ARC.

 

[kmw1954]

There’s a reason why one was easier to source than the other.
I attached the equipment list from the BR nationals held just a few days ago and I can tell you with certainty there is not one competitor shooting a 6 ARC.

Yeup, I seen that post and it is one of those I was just referencing. Then again I would also imagine that The Nationals is quite a different game than the one I'm playing. Also not shooting for Big Money prizes and esteem. But time will tell and sort it out, but still think it will be more competitive than the 223.