Para Ordnance

[Ghostrider_23]

What do you guys thick about the Para Ordnance singla stack 45 ACP LDA. Does anyone know if it's a good gun and what's it's life expectance?? It's made of stainless steel, but it's from Canada. Is that the only gun they produce, I don't think I've seen any other guns made in Canada. Wow, come to think about it, I don't think the people up there are allowed to have guns. Anyway what are your thoughts on the LDA's????

 

[katonk]

I have one..Love it! Here's a review on them:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97439

 

[kthomk]

I recently bought a used 6.45 para carry. Just went to the range today and put about 100 rounds through it. Although every gun is different, mine is very accurate. I practice combat style from 5 to 20 yards. At 20 yards, slow fire, all shots were grouped nicely. I will continue to shoot it, first impression was very good.

 

[rcellis]

Just got a 3" Covert Carry LDA single stack - wonderful little gun. Easy to carry, accurate for it's size, handles Gold Saber JHPs, good shooting ergonomics. I understand some have encountered quality problems with Para Ordinance, but aside from a slightly mis-installed mag release (which was quickly corrected by my dealer) it's a refined, quality pistol.

Nothing about my pistol would indicate a shorter than usual life.

Canadians *can* have guns, but they are restricted in the sizes and types - for instance, my 3" model would not, under normal circumstances, be allowed a Canadian. They also go through a background/personal vetting process.

 

[MrPoker]

My 6.45 Para Carry has pretty much become my everyday carry gun. Nice to hold, comfortable to carry, and shoots very well.

 

[Ric]

Very accurate, easy to carry. One of ny favorite carry guns.

 

[robertbank]

Ghostrider_23

" I don't think the people up there are allowed to have guns"

Yup we are. That is why the Washington State Minutemen man the border. Bet you fell safer now knowing they are out there.

Take Care

Bob

 

[Ghostrider_23]

From the article I read from katonk It makes me not want to buy one. Did you all read that thread????? How many rounds do you all have in your Paras?????? I heard that when they get dirty they will FTF and that the gun it's self is not made of very good metal, any thoughts on that

 

[katonk]

Approx 800 rounds thru mine so far with no hiccups yet and no "peening" issues as noted in the review I posted. I keep mine pretty clean and only very lightly lubed.....I bought spare recoil springs and plan on changing it out at 1k...If you look closely at that article..it was written in 2002...I have a late model one so I'm sure quality has improved since then..

 

[orionengnr]

I sure liked the four I owned.
Take a look here:

http://forum.m1911.org/index.php?

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/index.php?s=

Each site has a Para-specific posting area.

 

[treebeard]

I love mine. The only thing I have an issue with is sometimes I get FTF's on my own loads. I think it has to do with the way the SWC is seated in the cartridge though. My LDA is very accurate at 10-15 yards.

 

[MM]

Tree, (benign hijack)
You may get a better feed by giving a little more crimp to your cases.
SatCong

 

[BullfrogKen]

Jim Garthwaite is a personal friend and my pistolsmith. When the LDA came out, we asked him about it. He doesn't like Para's for their materials (now - keep in mind that Jim is an artist in his 1911, and another, pistolsmith work and has extremely high standards), but he had several specific criticisms of that trigger design. When he had it taken apart in front of us in a school circle analysis, if memory serves correctly, his impression was it had a weak trigger design and left him no options to fix any problems it might experience.

He didn't understand the need to put DA trigger system on a 1911. But, it might attract those apprehensive of traditional SA Locked and Cocked triggers. For general public consumption, he felt the design and execution could satisfy the occasional shooter. Those who expected to use a gun frequently should pass on it.

 

[treebeard]

SatKong, you are probably correct on the crimp being the issue.

 

[Steve 48]

I had a P12 LDA and it shot well but it was a heavy gun to carry with 13 rounds. I traded it off and bought a Springfield Micro Compact in the Bi-tone. I love that gun!! Steve 48

 

[carnaby]

Sorry to resurect a dead thread, but I can't help it

While Canadians can own some pistols, provided they have low-cap mags and a barrel not less than 4" in length, there is virtually no provision for ordinary Canadians to carry a pistol, concealed or openly, urban or rural. It really sucks not being able to carry a sidearm in the woods when hiking, hunting or fishing.

It also sucks to have to jump through so many hoops to own a gun of any kind. I lived in Canada for half my life, and I prefer being able to walk into a gun store and pick what I like and leave. No government permission required.

It's very odd that Para is a Canadian company. Maybe they'll move down south in the future? Anyway, their pistols look neat, and I like the carry treatment they give them, but the LDA trigger does sound iffy. I wonder why the gun mags all RAVE about Para's and the LDA, while members at THR and other forums barely ever mention them

 

[Babalouie]

I shoot a Para 1911 P16-40 (single action in 40S&W) every week and often twice a week. I compete in USPSA and my Para has over 10k through it... I've had no malfunctions in the last two years of shooting the gun and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another. In fact I am planning on doing just that cause the new ones are really pretty. I personally like the concept of the LDA and will eventually get one of the ccw models...very svelt little powerblasters they are. A couple of guys have shot the LDA in Production class but didn't like the reset length and went to shoot other firearms. But that had nothing to do with quality of build or reliability...it was strictly a competition issues and they still like the gun.

 

[rcellis]

One of the reasons I went with the LDA was anticipating a 'hold until authority arrives' situation - as nerves go up, muscle control goes down - the idea of controlling an SA trigger, particularly a light 1911 SA trigger, while adrenaline surges through my system and the perp is probably wiggling around looking for an out didn't appeal to me. The LDA trigger is smooth and light enough for immediate action, but adds just a touch of resistance that might make the difference between an accidental and intended shot during the wait.

It's not a big deal - I also carry several SA/DA pistols which, supposing the 'hold' would most likely be in SA mode, would mean that my finger will just about have to be along the frame (as I have trained).

Final analysis - the LDA is a nice low-cost compromise - and I find the quality and reliability of my Para to be excellent.

Clint

 

[Alan Fud]

The LDA's are not really "double action" because the striker has to first be primed. Larry Seecamp explains it very well here ...

The Para Ordnance LDA in reality has a sear mechanism that holds a hammer in a cocked position after the slide is retracted.

It is in this respect no different than a traditional single action 19ll.

What makes the LDA unique is that the cocked hammer is hidden from view while a part that looks very much like a hammer is prominently displayed. This part, which is drawn back and falls forward when the trigger is pulled does not function in any way like a traditional hammer.

The sole function of the visible LDA pseudo-hammer seems to be to create the illusion of a very soft D-A trigger pull when in fact that very light D-A pull is a very long S-A trigger pull. The real functional hammer is not cocked and dropped when the trigger is pulled on a Para Ordnance LDA. The actual hammer is held cocked and ready for release after the slide is retracted. What one sees on pulling the trigger of a Para Ordnance is a pseudo hammer being drawn back and dropped to create the illusion of double action. If the internal hammer is not cocked, the external pseudo hammer can be cocked and dropped thousands of times without firing the pistol.

The Para Ordnance LDA is an ingenious long pull single action design. It is not a double action.

... and here ...

I was thinking more along the lines of what happens during actual shooting, when one goes by feel and one looks at the target rather than at the hammer.

Since nothing on Glocks, Kahrs or Kel Tecs starts moving when a trigger is pulled, novices who use these pistols have to practice and become non-novices by concentrating on tactile rather than visual clues as to the moment of discharge. A Para Ordnance with no pseudo hammer and only a long S-A trigger pull would be akin to one of these pistols on learning when firing is about to take place.

I like visible hammers because visible hammers clearly show the safety condition of the pistol. If the hammer on one of our pistols somehow got stuck to the rear after chambering a round, I don't think anyone would holster and carry that pistol. They’d immediately be aware of the danger.

With a striker fired pistol, one can never be absolutely sure of the position or condition of the striker. I don't mean by that statement to suggest striker fired guns are dangerous. I just like reaffirmation of safety in the form of a fully exposed hammer. When the hammer on one of our pistols is seen as being fully forward, it is in fact fully forward. The hammer one sees is the hammer one gets.

The importance of keeping guns pointed down range after a misfire generally apply to striker fired weapons. What usually happens is not a misfire but a striker that has been held back by dirt or some other mechanical means. When the means holding the striker back are removed or jarred loose, the striker may charge forward to fire the gun. These delayed discharges are likely not hang fires caused by primers sitting on the edge, but far more likely the result of a striker suddenly released after hanging back on a thin thread.

I believe the Para Ordnance is a safe pistol; however, after a round is chambered the owner of a Para Ordnance should know the pistol is carried with the real hammer fully cocked and that the visible hammer is not a hammer by any accepted gun terminology definition.

... Source.

 

[svtruth]

Mine is a

13-.45 that I bought used for about $350.00. Took it out to the range yesterday and my daughter's fiance, who is very knowledgeable about guns was very impressed with it.
It came with two mags, one had some feeding issues, I bought another and they seem to work fine, round nose, HP, Wolf, Triton, et al. all seem to be digestible.
Good luck.

 

[5Wire]

I had a P12 LDA and it shot well but it was a heavy gun to carry with 13 rounds. I traded it off and bought a Springfield Micro Compact in the Bi-tone. I love that gun!! Steve 48

I did it the other way around, traded the 645 LDA and kept the 12.45 LDA. Shoulda done what you did.

By the way, the Larry Seecamp quote is not the last word. The LDA is, in fact a double action pistol. Precocking alone will not suffice to make it a single action.
See this thread on the Para Ordnance sub forum at M-1911.

 

[Alan Fud]

"Action" refers to the amount of work done by pulling the trigger. A pull of the trigger on a "single action" will perform one function -- that of dropping the hammer/striker on the primer. A pull on a "double action" will perform two functions -- cocking & dropping the hammer/striker.

If the LDA's are not pre-primed/pre-cocked, pulling the trigger all day long will acomplish nothing. Therefore, in the strickest sense, their trigger pull peforms ONE action -- thus bringing them closer to a single action than a double action ... making Larry's assessment correct.

 

[5Wire]

If the LDA's are not pre-primed/pre-cocked, pulling the trigger all day long will acomplish nothing. Therefore, in the strickest sense, their trigger pull peforms ONE action -- thus bringing them closer to a single action than a double action ... making Larry's assessment correct.

That's the point of the thread cited, Alan Fud, 'closer' doesn't count and the trigger pull does accomplish two functions, it completes the cocking action and trips the sear.

I don't want to get into a hijacking hassle here. Maybe a new thread on the subject.

 

[Alan Fud]

You're correct about not hi-jacking this thread.

 

[seecamp]

That's the point of the thread cited, Alan Fud, 'closer' doesn't count and the trigger pull does accomplish two functions, it completes the cocking action and trips the sear.

The trigger pull does not complete the cocking action.

The NRA definition of D-A is:

DOUBLE-ACTION
A handgun mechanism where pulling the trigger retracts and releases the hammer or firing pin to initiate discharge.

The Merriam Webster definition of hammer is:

(2) : a part of the action of a modern gun that strikes the primer of the cartridge in firing or that strikes the firing pin to ignite the cartridge

The piece that is called an "outside hammer" in the cited thread has absolutely no function that meets any firearms definition of hammer. It simply creates the illusion that a hammer is being cocked when in fact the real hammer is already fully cocked.

The hammer becomes fully cocked after the slide is retracted. There is no pre-cock waiting for a full-cock as found in pistols like the Glock.

I'd call that a long pull single action with an effective D-A illusion.

The cited link, by the way, gives an excellent description of the mechanism.

I would have just changed the term "outside hammer" to "pseudo hammer" or something similar. The "outside hammer" serves absolutely no hammer function.