Patched Round Balls and Inline Rifles

[alsaqr]

Thompson Center and other massed produced brand conventional muzzleloaders have shallow rifling to allow for use with lead conicals, Most rifling twist rates are 1 turn in 48 inches: That allows for use with patched round balls. Those rifles work best with a tight fitting ball and patch.

Proper round ball rifles have deeper grooves and narrow lands with rifling twist rates of 1/66" to about 1/92". Those rifles put balls fired with varying powder charges in the same group.

In about 2000 i began experimenting with firing patched round balls from fast rifling twist rate inline rifles. At that time i had not read Bill Knights article linked below. Many muzzleloader shooters claimed it would only work with small powder charges. First inline rifle i fired patched round balls from was my cheap Stag Horn with a rifling twist rate of 1/32".
The scoped rifle is very accurate when loaded with 70 grains of Pyrodex powder and a patched round ball. At 50 yards three round balls overlap.

My favorite inline round ball shooter is the .54 TC Fire Hawk with a rifling twist rate of 1/38". Using 80 grains of Black MZ powder it makes a five shot cloverleaf at 78 yards.

Bill Knight on firing patched round balls fired from fast twist rate rifles:

Not Bill Knight: Doc White.

Round Balls In Fast Twist Rifles – White Muzzle Loading

 

[doubleh]

Early on I built my wife a T/C Hawken and a CVA Mountain Rifle for me a little later from kits. The CVA has always had the edge a little over the T/C. and I believe it's the difference in twist between the two barrels. However the T/C has killed a deer and the CVA hasn't. That fact doesn't really equate to anything since it has been the lack of opportunity for the CVA.

 

[AntiqueSledMan]

I started with a Thompson Center Hawken in 1978.
Then in 1980 I purchased a CVA Frontier Rifle to experiment with.
I was going to try a kit gun, but I actually purchased the completed rifle cheaper then the kit version.
I stripped the blue finish and plum browned the barrel and changed the front sight.
You all know the Thompson Center was 1:48 and the CVA was 1:66 twist.
I always shot better targets with the CVA, wished I would have never sold it.
My son still carries the old Thompson Center, and I'm shooting a Lyman Great Plains Hunter.
We don't do a lot of target shooting anymore and are now shooting conicals in sabots for hunting.

AntiqueSledMan.

 

[earlthegoat2]

I have shot PRBs in one of my old 1:28 .54s (MK-85 clone) with deer hunting accuracy. I only used 80 gr Pyrodex and didn’t experiment at all after that.

BH209 would be interesting to try if it were not $80/8 oz….

I would like to try it again. I am trying to find a Rem 700 ML in 54 cal. I still have all my components just patiently waiting for the gun to plop in my lap at a fair market price.

 

[PapaG]

Our twist rate of choice for PRBs was 1 in 20 or 22, for pistols.
I have never tried rb in the fast twist rifles. Interesting.
My old 54 Renegade strangely enough, would group round balls and maxi balls to the same poa/poi at fifty yards with 100 grains of ffg. Different story at 100.

 

[woodnbow]

Thompson Center and other massed produced brand conventional muzzleloaders have shallow rifling to allow for use with lead conicals, Most rifling twist rates are 1 turn in 48 inches: That allows for use with patched round balls. Those rifles work best with a tight fitting ball and patch.

Proper round ball rifles have deeper grooves and narrow lands with rifling twist rates of 1/66" to about 1/92". Those rifles put balls fired with varying powder charges in the same group.

In about 2000 i began experimenting with firing patched round balls from fast rifling twist rate inline rifles. At that time i had not read Bill Knights article linked below. Many muzzleloader shooters claimed it would only work with small powder charges. First inline rifle i fired patched round balls from was my cheap Stag Horn with a rifling twist rate of 1/32".
The scoped rifle is very accurate when loaded with 70 grains of Pyrodex powder and a patched round ball. At 50 yards three round balls overlap.

My favorite inline round ball shooter is the .54 TC Fire Hawk with a rifling twist rate of 1/38". Using 80 grains of Black MZ powder it makes a five shot cloverleaf at 78 yards.

Bill Knight on firing patched round balls fired from fast twist rate rifles:

Round Balls In Fast Twist Rifles – White Muzzle Loading

You sure that’s not Doc White?

 

[alsaqr]

You sure that’s not Doc White?

Thanks. i corrected the OP.

 

[Savage30L]

As I posted recently in another thread, some decades back I bought a CVA Hawken in .50 caliber. I shot only .490 patched round balls in it, I think it had that slow twist. It would put 5 balls touching at 50 yards with 90 grains of Pyrodex RS....a really accurate hunting rifle.

I moved to a place in South Carolina where the gun season was 4 1/2 months long, so I thought I didn't need that gun anymore, and sold it. I wish now I'd kept it.

 

[hawg]

C

As I posted recently in another thread, some decades back I bought a CVA Hawken in .50 caliber. I shot only .490 patched round balls in it, I think it had that slow twist.

The CVA Hawken had a 1:48 twist. The Mountain Rifle had a 1:66 twist.

 

[N555]

I could never get mine to shoot patched round balls very well.
I could have hit a deer with a patched round ball at 100yd, probably just injure it.
But any more modern-er ammo, maxiball, saboted rounds, .502 lubed bullets all shot 2 to 3 inches at 100yd.

 

[hawg]

I had a hard enough time getting an Investarms Hawken with a 1:48 twist to shoot PRB's good enough to hunt with.

 

[Dave Markowitz]

I had a hard enough time getting an Investarms Hawken with a 1:48 twist to shoot PRB's good enough to hunt with.

Not doubting you but I'm a little surprised at that. My Cabela's Hawken .50 (which is an Investarms) with 1:48 twist is quite accurate with a .490 ball and either a .018 ticking or .020 thick patch. It doesn't like light loads and only starting grouping well with 60 - 70 grains of powder.

Just goes to show you that each gun is a law unto itself.

 

[hawg]

Not doubting you but I'm a little surprised at that. My Cabela's Hawken .50 (which is an Investarms) with 1:48 twist is quite accurate with a .490 ball and either a .018 ticking or .020 thick patch. It doesn't like light loads and only starting grouping well with 60 - 70 grains of powder.

Just goes to show you that each gun is a law unto itself.

Mine did group pretty well with 90 grains with a .490 ball and a .010 patch but it took some doing to find the right combo. I killed quite a few deer with it but I didn't always get an exit wound. Oddly enough my .54 Hawken shoots the same load very, very well. Much better than the Investarms did and I get an exit wound. It has a 1:66 twist tho. I have an old CVA St Louis .50 Hawken with a 1:48 twist but I've only fired it once to unload it.