People always say it's 'guns' or 'mental health' but no one simply says 'Anger'....

[basicblur]

But, because most states were forced to change these laws and limit the circumstances under which someone could be legally detained, our streets are not as safe as they once were.

I can tell you from first hand experience how true that is.
We have swung from one extreme (warehousing the mentally ill) to the other (almost impossible to have someone admitted) - as a society (and government), we seem to always swing from one extreme to the other, never able to find the "sweet spot" in the middle.

This ex reporter who MURDERED these people would probably have never got a job with a TV news station unless he had a squeeky clean record and high recommendations.
What we have to worry about is when crimes like this are committed by people such as this ex reporter who are considered respectable upstanding citizens almost beyond reproach...

Above reproach?
Wow...have you not seen the reports of this guy's history?

It looks like this guy did not get his job at our local TV station because he was "sqeeky clean", but probably because he was bounced from numerous other jobs because of his problems, and no doubt previous employers kept their mouths shut in an effort to stave off possible lawsuits.

He was fired 2 years ago by our local station and had to be escorted off the premises by the police because he did not take his firing well.

To his credit, the local station manager has given extensive interviews where he had given the reasons / circumstances of his firing, most of which were his inability to "play with others".

 

[AlexanderA]

Fortunately, incidents like this are very, very rare. Yet every time something like this happens, the cry goes up that "something must be done."

The truth is that nothing can be done ahead of time, short of turning the country into a police state, with everyone being watched 24/7.

A certain irreducible number of shootings is the price we pay for having an open society. This is terrible for the relatives of the victims, but is the best solution for the vast majority.

We would have no traffic accidents if we simply abolished roads and cars. But nobody is proposing that.

On a global scale, America is still a very safe country. Imagine trying to live in Syria, for example.

 

[berettaprofessor]

Show me one case where a potential mass killer has been detected/diagnosed before the event and stopped

Uh, memory issues there? Last week? Eurotrain? France?

Im all for being gungho 2nd Amendment, but lets not change facts to fit our argument. Ok?

 

[Baba Louie]

Self Control

Warehousing the insane was verboten due to the ACLU stepping into the scene... perhaps rightfully so in regards to conditions of "asylums" and mental health care knowledge and procedures at the time. Easily affected States budgets when they were cut off and the lunatics were now on the path.

But now with free, er, affordable health care for all (roll eyes thingie) and 5 more decades of useful mental health care knowledge, crazies are still walking around talking to themselves and answering back. More kids are medicated. Adults as well. 1 in 6 or 7? Quite a few self medicate (whoo boy!)

Anger, we've always had. Self control, most of us, as humans, have.

Some, statistically a small number, lack that.

Yes, overall crime is lower today, even with the mentally feeble on the streets.

Certain demographics in certain cities however buck the trend to unbelievable numbers of crime per capita. Baltimore to name just one, as of late, what? 64+/- / 100K homicides? (as one specific example)

Anger? Anyone who uses the Columbine and then VT murders as an example to emulate then go one step further and film it and release it on the webz... premeditated murder. Matters not the whining of poor poor me and mine, oooooo that wabbut makes me wighteouswy wacky. You won't wike me when I'm angwy!!!

That dog don't hunt.

Everyone in this nation, perhaps the entire planet should know, and I opine, does know, that taking an innocent life has grave repercussions...

So, You get angry, I get angry... ok we're adults here, we can deal with it. It is the "getting even" for imagined or perhaps real slights wherein lies the rub.

Sticks and stones...and all. But words? Meh. They do not have any power over me that I do not allow, for the most part.

But if I cannot hold a job due to this or that, my internal processing or self medicating, my social skills lacking, what-have-you, and I blame everyone in the world except myself and do not look within to identify and address my flaws... or do not care to but wish to project that painful flaw striking out harming others... well, that IS the problem of the moment.

Has been since Cain blew his brother Abel away, as the story goes... and that story (parable perhaps?) has been around awhile if my memory still serves. Old story. Human nature. I don't believe Cain had access to a glock...

 

[USAF_Vet]

Uh, memory issues there? Last week? Eurotrain? France?

Im all for being gungho 2nd Amendment, but lets not change facts to fit our argument. Ok?

I had no idea A1C Stone and his friends were mental health professionals who diagnosed the wannabe jihadist before he could carry out his plan. Seems more to reason that your memory is having issues, or you're trying to change facts to fit your argument.

The French Train incident was not stopped before it was carried out. It was IN PROGRESS. He was not detected/ diagnosed until the gun came out. If he had better training, the situation would have been radically different.

So this example you cite is a poor choice as an argument for as successful prevention of a massacre. The circumstances being what they were allowed this to play out as a win for the good guys, but not because the attacker was properly diagnosed or detected as a threat.

 

[Tom Fury]

Goin' to Dallas...

The media plays the game (out of the cynical belief they can "make" public opinion) of printing inflammatory stories and seeing just how close they can come to starting conflict without going all the way; we all know how that works out eventually...
It gives birth to "terroristic entitlement"; which confuses revenge with justice...and suggests one has a "right" to it.
We should be pointing out the shooter was a murderer who bought his with intent; most of us have owned lotsa guns for a long time and never killed anybody...No yellow sheet can detect the intent to commit murder in someones' heart.
Don't Blame the Guns...
J

When was the last time you had to buy a gun because you needed it to MURDER somebody?
Which one of your guns do you keep for that purpose? The pink one?

Johnny hit the joint again, and when he finally exhaled, he had an epiphany; he said: "Dude, what if there were no guns? Then there would be no killing..."
Hit it again, Johnny; your first assumption was flawed...

 

[45_auto]

People who kill other people (absent exigent circumstances such as self-defense) are not mentally "healthy" by definition.

Lots of people who are perfectly mentally healthy kill other people for reasons other than self-defense all the time. Pretty much the whole goal of the US military is to be able to kill the other guy without putting US personnel into danger.

By your definition, the Air Force guys sitting in Creech AFB in Nevada flying the drones that are killing people (hopefully ISIS) in Afghanistan are not "mentally healthy". I very seriously doubt if they're doing it in "self defense" involving an immediate fear of death or serious bodily injury when they push the button.

 

[TimSr]

On the contrary, our streets are safer than they have been in at least 50 years.
1980 was the high point with over 10 murders per 100,000 population in the United States. By 1993 it was down to 9.6.

By 2013 the ratio was cut in half to 4.5. All this with twice as many guns in Americans hands in the last 20 years. Every time I hear the argument that there are too many guns on the street, I give them these numbers. Facts, not hype.

See this graph:
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0873729.html

Absolutely true! This whole idea of "mass hootings" and "crimes are on the rise" are media fabrications meant to scare you into seeking a governmnet solution to a declining problem.

What used to be reported as local news of a criminal shooting two people is now covered nationally as "another mass shooting" much in the same way that the media combs through hundreds of police videos to pick out the ones with a white cop and a black subject in an effort to falsely claim its representative of all the ones passed over.

Violent crime has declined at about the same rate that private citizen gun rights have been restored, and in the same areas.

 

[Ed Ames]

Uh, memory issues there? Last week? Eurotrain? France?

Im all for being gungho 2nd Amendment, but lets not change facts to fit our argument. Ok?

That's a huge lump of revisionist history to ask anyone to swallow.

The Eurotrain guy may or may not have been detected before he acted. I've seen reports he was on watch lists. However, he was not stopped before he acted.

As much as the culturally anti-gun were baffled by the statement "the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun", the Eurorail incident doesn't disprove that statement so much as add nuance. The only thing that can stop a bad guy who is committing violence, is a good guy willing and able to commit violence. In this case a guy with a rifle, pistol, and knife were met with full body tackles and ugly down on the ground fighting. Asking someone to go bare handed against lives, rifles, and pistols is just a bit much.

What happened there was exactly what Wayne was talking about.

 

[X-Rap]

I doesn't matter that crime rates are on the decline because we are dictated by the 24 hr news cycle and they manipulate the public as well as the gov in how demand and enact laws.

 

[stonecutter2]

Today from youngster on up thru all schooling kids are taught to suppress anger.
Then at some time someone finally blows.
Amazing!

Anger suppression runs throughout our society. We like happy, sad, indifferent...but angry? No, no anger allowed. That's "scary."

 

[Tom Fury]

Anger suppression;

is denial; Self-Control is something else; we are not taught to be responsible for it: Our society teaches us to make excuses and expect them to be made for us. We expect external controls (a punishment) to keep people in line, but expect exceptions to be made for our own misbehaviour. We have come to believe in qualifying circumstances rather than personal integrity and responsibility. We are a nation that lives below the level of its' values, demanding as a right what is preserved by personal integrity and strength.
What made this country great was individuals of great moral courage;
what makes it suck is their absence.
Gun control: based on the irrational belief that you can make people ack right.
Gun ownership is a privilege of Honor. It may be the last icon of that in our society.
Don't Blame the Guns...
J

 

[basicblur]

Anger suppression runs throughout our society.

I've always thought the demonization of those who display / show (reasonable) anger is a calculated effort by those in power to suppress future opposition.
After all, if we can slowly make them all sheep, who's going to stand up to us when / should we make our move?

Just watch the hyperbole on TV - many folks they say "lost their temper" are nothing more than maybe someone raising their voice, etc. - I wouldn't call it losing their temper.

Should one of these PC folks ever tell me I'm losing my temper, I will point out to them "no, I have not lost my temper - I'm merely displaying it".

Iff'n I had truly lost my temper, we might be rolling on the ground...

 

[skeeziks]

I love your points about Loosing one's temper vs. merely displaying it. Everything you said is so true....

What I can't understand is why I haven't heard anyone explain to all these gun-control freaks (the Sheeple) that the push for the NICS background check didn't start until 1981 (implemented in 1998) and that it was much easier to obtain a firearm then and yet these school shootings were unheard of and "shooting massacres" were much more rare than today.
I would like them to give me an explanation as to why these things didn't happen, when anyone could just walk into a hardware store and plop down the cash for a gun and walk out with it the same as you could buy a hammer or a saw.

They blame "ease of access to guns" when it is harder now to obtain one then ever before.

 

[basicblur]

I would like them to give me an explanation as to why these things didn't happen...

Everybody likes to whine about the "gun culture" being the root of all our ills these days, but we've had a gun culture in this country for a looooong time.

The gun culture was parents taking their kids hunting, target shooting, etc.
We had little / no problem with the gun culture (and still don't).
Heck, one could make the argument that we actually may have less of a gun culture than in the past due to the decrease in hunters over the years.

What we DO have a problem with these days is a "gang culture", but it's just not PC to discuss that.

As usual, our politicians will continue to treat the symptoms, and not the problem.

 

[Delford]

I think "irrational anger" is the key. Once you let it take over your psyche/soul you are lost. You no longer have built in conscience stops. You let your angry imagination rule you and that road leads to Columbine and Roanoke.

I know evil exists as I've met evil people. They have gone down that road already. They can appear normal and could pass system checks. They just haven't reached a point where they do a Columbine or Roanoke. There's no stopping what they do before the fact. Any possible action is only reaction. The trained soldiers on the Eurail reacted quickly and with skill imparted by practice. That's what CC is about. Train, practice, do it some more and hope you never have to but know you can do it.

 

[Tom Fury]

The virginia murderer

The irrational anger comes from his Racism. His Glock didn't tell him to do that.
The Glock was the most rational thing on the scene; it only did what it was told.
It was the cameras made him do it...
TBTG
J

How did we get HERE? Where racist thoughts and attitudes are understood to have an obligatory outward expression of violence?
I understand "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore..." I understand "Goin' downtown gonna buy me a blue-steel .44"
But there is no excuse that the one leads to the other.

 

[jamesjames]

Oh, its way deeper and more complex than anger. Anger is just one emotion. Most people can feel it, control it, sometimes express it, and then it goes away and life goes on.

Mentally healthy people can deal with anger and move on and resolve things. Delusional people stew in the anger and it consumes their whole life and being. So its never just anger. Anger is just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Mousegun]

Some people have a hard time accepting that there are evil people who wish to do harm to their fellow man so in a PC climate they try to rationalize and look for the "reason"

This

 

[hso]

No

"Anger issues" lead to impulsive acts carried out immediately. Plotting and carrying out violence is the act of a madman.

 

[IWAC]

Uhmmm...I don't believe there were many guns "on the street" when Cain slew Abel. Oh, Yes, definitely anger management, deprived childhood, sibling rivalry, mental health "problems", etc, etc., ad nauseum.

The fact is, evil EXISTS, and in a many of cases, can disguise itself in a civilized covering, until it doesn't.

I once read a book by an FBI Agent/profiler, which contained a list of 10 "indicators" for a serial murderer. Guess what? I was 7 out of the 10.

That bothered me, so I had a conversation about that with an Law Enforcement Officer acquaintance. While I have never had the desire to shoot up a preschool, or anything similar, I will admit to a fantasy of putting a round through the windshield of a College professor, just to see the glass fly, and attempt to scare some humanity into her! Probably wouldn't have worked, anyway.

Lived the fantasy for ohhh...maybe a minute and a half, didn't really like it, then went on to happier things.

Our conclusion? Except in rare cases of true insanity, It's a choice! Even those with the popular "psychoses" can recognize the seriousness and results of their actions. It is the "social sciences" who are the apologists.

 

[Sunray]

If your anger issues lead you to murder, it stops being just anger issues.
"...Glock was the most rational thing..." Nonsense. A firearm is an inanimate object that cannot be rational or irrational. And the Glock did nothing. Inanimate objects can't do anything.
"...is now covered nationally..." Internationally. And on the so-called 'entertainment' shows.

 

[Lord Teapot]

Uh, memory issues there? Last week? Eurotrain? France?

Im all for being gungho 2nd Amendment, but lets not change facts to fit our argument. Ok?

your example is irrelevant, as it is not a case of mental health problems being detected beforehand, and government subsequently intervening before a violent crime took place. your example is, however, an example of several unarmed citizens bringing down a violent muslim terrorist before he could inflict the full fruits of his violent ideology on those around him.

 

[tomrkba]

"Mental health" is merely the next step in gun control. They can disqualify anyone arbitrarily once they attach this as a condition to purchasing a firearm. Fast forward thirty years and it will be a nationwide requirement for possession.

 

[skeeziks]

So, the NICS "Instant" background check won't be a inconvenience at all when compared to being required to have a psychological evaluation before being permitted to take possession?
Imagine, if you will, a 6-week waiting period....