pepper ball "guns"..?

[Shanghai McCoy]

Anyone here have any info or experience with those PepperBall non lethal "guns"? I have an old friend who lives in california and he's seriously thinking about buying one. They don't look like a good idea to me but maybe they would be for him..?

 

[Mk-211]

Aren't they just a paintball gun that shoots the same balls filled with OC?

I agree about it being a bad idea, I would think there's a chance of getting shot by a real gun...

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

That's what they look like to me.

 

[hso]

Terrible idea.

Review the OC thread. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/pepper-spray-the-truth.768705/

 

[C.R.]

Friend of mine sold them when he worked for a L.E. supply store. they have limited range and if the person is wearing bulky clothing the pellets bounce off. best plan is to hit something NEXT to the perps head to burst the pellet and disperse the OC . they look close enough to a real weapon to get you shot. Better to have a pistol or shotgun in my opinion.

 

[JShirley]

The original launchers were in fact just paintball guns but there are a variety of newer launchers, not all of which look like firearms. I got my wife this gel launcher, which is about the size of a .380. You could also go old school, and get a Kimber Pepper Blaster (check Cali laws first: the Pepper Blaster uses a propellant charge).

John

 

[Old Dog]

USELESS. Less than useless. Talk to all your friends who've been working in jails and prisons for the last twenty years or so, and they'll let you know in no uncertain terms just how ineffective these are.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

I advised against them but it's his,(or his wife's..) decision.

 

[westernrover]

Terrible idea.

Review the OC thread. https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/pepper-spray-the-truth.768705/

Can you clarify whether your comment is about OC in general, or just the OC ball shooters?

Would you consider spray as an idea better than "terrible"? What about for someone who is not likely to get a carry permit? (the subject of the thread is in California)

USELESS. Less than useless. Talk to all your friends who've been working in jails and prisons for the last twenty years or so, and they'll let you know in no uncertain terms just how ineffective these are.

I talked to an officer at our local county jail. He demonstrated an FN303 in the internal exercise yard of the jail. He didn't have anything bad to say about it, but remarked that since he got a dog, he never uses it.

 

[hso]

OC ball shooters?

The ball shooters are terrible for SD.

Sprays are great, but not if the aggressor is resistant. A Taser is better in many ways, but we all know the tool of last resort is a firearm when an attack must be stopped.

 

[Old Dog]

Can you clarify whether your comment is about OC in general, or just the OC ball shooters?

OC in general (especially once you get to the 1.3% or higher formulation) is a proven fight stopper. There may be 5% of the population that isn't strongly affected by good pepper spray, but for most folks, and in my experience, it's a powerful and effective tool.

Anything with little rubber balls, not so much. Find someone who's worked the big yard, close custody units or rec or dining halls in your state pen. They know what works.

 

[westernrover]

I advised against them but it's his,(or his wife's..) decision.

I recommend advising your friend to get some spray. I like the POM dispensers. They're small enough that people will really carry them and not just keep them in the car or a drawer at home. They come in a pocket-clip model (clips like a pocket knife) or a keychain clip model. The spray itself is 1.4%. Don't get hung up on the formulations. POM, Sabre, Fox Labs, etc. The container size and trigger design are the biggest difference and it's a matter of trade-offs and personal preference. Get "stream" pattern rather than "spray" "fog" or "gel" unless you've trained with the various patterns and determined a different pattern is better for your specific purpose and conditions. Do buy several cans and train with them. Use IDPA targets or just a paper plate at head-height. Print-out "bad guy" faces on 8.5"x11" paper and staple them to the plates if you want to make it more interesting. I trained my teenage nieces and it helped to keep them engaged. My twenty-something niece had enough experience at her age she didn't need the extra motivation -- probably had enough faces in her head already. You can get "inert" trainers or train with the hot stuff -- just be prepared. I've trained at a county park when there's no one around. Get some "Sudecon" wipes. They can help if you get some backspray in training, and they're also good to keep in all your first aid kits, glovebox, center console etc.

 

[Jon35er]

Anyone here have any info or experience with those PepperBall non lethal "guns"? I have an old friend who lives in california and he's seriously thinking about buying one. They don't look like a good idea to me but maybe they would be for him..?

They can be effective if all the shots are aimed at the face/throat area, some manufacturers of theses pepper ball guns also make kinetic balls that are solid rubber and are strictly ment to induce pain. Here in NY the kinetic balls are legal but the pepper balls are not because the amount of capsaicin in the pepper powder/juice is beyond what is allowed. (Go figure )

 

[Old Dog]

They can be effective if all the shots are aimed at the face/throat area, some manufacturers of theses pepper ball guns also make kinetic balls that are solid rubber and are strictly ment to induce pain. Here in NY the kinetic balls are legal but the pepper balls are not because the amount of capsaicin in the pepper powder/juice is beyond what is allowed. (Go figure )

No, no and no. Less lethal projectile launchers are not to be aimed at the head/neck area, ever. And the amount of capsaicin product in the pepper balls is miniscule at best.

If this stuff really worked, don't you think the street cops and corrections staff would still be using it?

 

[Bronco72]

I have heard it said " Do not bring a knife to a gun fight" IMHO, Taser, OC sprays and some of what is mentioned I would only consider if I could not get a concealed firearm permit or was financially challenged to not be able to afford one. and the permits. Again just IMHO.

John

 

[shafter]

Pepper ball can absolutely be effective but it has specific applications that fall outside of civilian self defense. Poor idea.

 

[Jon35er]

No, no and no. Less lethal projectile launchers are not to be aimed at the head/neck area, ever. And the amount of capsaicin product in the pepper balls is miniscule at best.

If this stuff really worked, don't you think the street cops and corrections staff would still be using it?

Granted I would want a firearm in stead of the pepper blaster. However in some locations in the world they’re not legal to own. I’m not sure if this is the case in this situation. If I were in a situation where no gun was available but that this thing was, well I’d use that first before it became hand to hand.
And in terms of effectiveness, then by those standards cops in the United States should not carry tazers because they are only marginally effective.

 

[Shanghai McCoy]

^^^
As I posted, he is in California and, while he used to be a "gun guy" I think he wants something his very liberal current wife will allow. To be honest, I think the "guns" are legal in California but the pepper balls are not..?

 

[Old Dog]

And in terms of effectiveness, then by those standards cops in the United States should not carry tazers because they are only marginally effective.

Never had the pleasure of being TASEd, eh? (with a real TASER, employing the two darts)

As I posted, he is in California and, while he used to be a "gun guy" I think he wants something his very liberal current wife will allow. To be honest, I think the "guns" are legal in California but the pepper balls are not..?

California does not allow any pepper spray systems that launch projectiles.

"Penal Code Title 2: Control of Deadly Weapons Chapter 4: Tear Gas Weapons Article 1: General Provisions Section 12403.7

Notwithstanding any other law, any person may purchase, possess, or use tear gas and tear gas weapons for the projection or release of tear gas if the tear gas and tear gas weapons are used solely for self-defense purposes, subject to the following requirements:

(a) No person convicted of a felony or any crime involving an assault under the laws of the United States, the State of California, or any other state, government, or country or convicted of misuse of tear gas under subdivision (g) shall purchase, possess, or use tear gas or tear gas weapons.

(b) No person who is addicted to any narcotic drug shall purchase, possess, or use tear gas or tear gas weapons.

(c) No person shall sell or furnish any tear gas or tear gas weapon to a minor.

(d) No person who is a minor shall purchase, possess, or use tear gas or tear gas weapons.

(e) (1) No person shall purchase, possess, or use any tear gas weapon that expels a projectile, or that expels the tear gas by any method other than an aerosol spray, or that contains more than 2.5 ounces net weight of aerosol spray."

 

[hso]

e) (1) No person shall purchase, possess, or use any tear gas weapon that expels a projectile, or that expels the tear gas by any method other than an aerosol spray,

That settles that. OC projectise are prohibited in his area.