Pepper spray question
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10shooter
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Pepper spray for dogs usually runs 0.25% to 1%. For people its usually 2%-11%. My department uses 5% I find after each use its a good idea to clean the nozzle with warm water and a Q-tip. If not then the next use maybe partial clogged and sputter to one side. But as far as the strength it's all good and the stronger "people" version is more than enough to stop a dog. Different types are also foam or stream; foam actually covers and burns, if whiped off burns even more. Stream tends to have more range. I have been to several sprayings only once did I see it take no effect. The man just stood there and asked what was that and why did we get this all over his face and clothes and will it stain. The man had mental health issues and wouldn't drop the bat, K-9 scared him so much he complied. This is one of only a few failures I've ever had solid info on. Personally I would go with a 3% to 6% spray (not foam or mist) that had a dye in for help with later ID of the offender.
stevelyn
Member
Don't get caught up in percentages. They can sometimes be an advertising trap. As 10Shooter stated %s for people run between 1-11% for people defense. Bear sprays go up to 20%. But theres more than %s.
Heat measurement in pepper spray is measured in Scoville Heat Units (SHUs). Don't ask me the value of an SHU, I don't know. But for comparison Tabasco is about 5- 10k SHU.
Most peppers sprays run between 500k SHU on the low end to 15 million on the high end with most brands hovering between 1.5 to 2 million SHU. Punch II, Counter Assault, OC10, Bodyguard are in the 2 million SHU range. Fox Labs Fox 5.0 is 5 million and Zark Vexor V7 is 15. Unfortunately Zark sells only to LE/Govt.
Most of my experiences is with Zark's old version called Cap-Stun. I personally have not had a failure with it. Everyone I sprayed stopped what they were doing and cried for their mothers. I'm now carrying Vexor V7, but haven't had the opportunity to unleash
yet. One of our officers about to graduate the academy has seen V7 at work and describes it as down right evil.
I have seen two delayed reactions. Both occured in cold weather with temps around -10F. One was in training and the other was an intoxicated fighting subject resisting arrest. In both cases cold temperatures closed up the pores and didn't allow the OC to do its thing immediately. Just something to be aware of.
Heat measurement in pepper spray is measured in Scoville Heat Units (SHUs). Don't ask me the value of an SHU, I don't know. But for comparison Tabasco is about 5- 10k SHU.
Most peppers sprays run between 500k SHU on the low end to 15 million on the high end with most brands hovering between 1.5 to 2 million SHU. Punch II, Counter Assault, OC10, Bodyguard are in the 2 million SHU range. Fox Labs Fox 5.0 is 5 million and Zark Vexor V7 is 15. Unfortunately Zark sells only to LE/Govt.
Most of my experiences is with Zark's old version called Cap-Stun. I personally have not had a failure with it. Everyone I sprayed stopped what they were doing and cried for their mothers. I'm now carrying Vexor V7, but haven't had the opportunity to unleash
yet. One of our officers about to graduate the academy has seen V7 at work and describes it as down right evil. I have seen two delayed reactions. Both occured in cold weather with temps around -10F. One was in training and the other was an intoxicated fighting subject resisting arrest. In both cases cold temperatures closed up the pores and didn't allow the OC to do its thing immediately. Just something to be aware of.
The Scoville scale measures how many times that pepper concoction would have to be diluted with sugar water before the heat could no longer be detected by the average human taster. For example- the habenero pepper at 200,000 SHUs requires a solution of 1 part habenero and 200,000 parts sugar water before the heat is no longer detectable.
2 million scoville heat units minimum.
Liquid propellant is best because you can shake it and tell if it's still good.
I don't care for all the dyes and other stuff in mine. I want as much pepper and propellant as possible.
A nice safety is good as long as you can still use it fast. Bodyguard makes a nice package.
Fox has a good reputation. I carry mace brand foam when it's really windy. Seems like foam would blow less, although I admit I've not tested my theory.
Liquid propellant is best because you can shake it and tell if it's still good.
I don't care for all the dyes and other stuff in mine. I want as much pepper and propellant as possible.
A nice safety is good as long as you can still use it fast. Bodyguard makes a nice package.
Fox has a good reputation. I carry mace brand foam when it's really windy. Seems like foam would blow less, although I admit I've not tested my theory.
copaup
Member
Now here is something I can discuss. I am, in the parlance of the local police, a #@$% magnet. In the last six months I have had to spray seven resisting subjects. I think that may be some kind of a record. The fact that I am a CIT officer (we get the mental patients, in addition to the regular crazy scumbags) may have something to do with it. Pepper spray is not infallible. I have seen it work like a shovel to the face, and I've seen it just annoy the dickens out of the guy you just zapped. Mental condition, level of intoxication, and just plain toughness are all factors. We are currently carrying a 5.5% spray in a stream (MACE brand) as general issue. This is a vast improvement over the older 3in1 spray we carried (1% OC with CS and a marker dye). The new 5.5 is noticibly hotter and has a quicker onset of heat than the old spray. The 2 people I used it on both changed their outlook on life and cooperating with the nice officer very quickly. The other can on my belt is a 10% foam which I refer to as "The Malicious Merange". It is a truly nasty substance issued to CIT and MED personell. The foam sticks to your face, melts into your eyes, and is generally unpleasent. It is running about a 80% success rate for me, but it gets used almost exclusively on violent mental patients, so I consider that pretty effective. Problems exist with the foam however. It DOES NOT WORK in the wind. Think shaving cream fight on a windy day. Also due to the foaming agent you need a bigger can that contains less actual uses. The sprayed individual can get a big handful of the stuff and sling it back at you. Also, the percentage does not make the spray hotter, only last longer. The 5.5 spray wears off in around 20 minutes. The foam burns for an hour or more. This is important since the likelyhood is very high that if you deploy agent, you will get to expeirience the fun effects yourself when you subdue the subject (or your partner has bad aim...)
Brands that I have seen used to good effect:
FOX
Sabre
MACE 5.5 or 10%
Freeze +P
Try to stay away from the water based sprays, PDs went to them for fear of setting people on fire with a taser after spraying them. The solvent based sprays (such as Fox) penetrate the skin faster and have a much quicker onset. The water sprays seem to take up to 10 seconds to really "heat up" once deployed.
As far as dogs go, the liquid stream seems to work pretty well. Aim for their eyes and muzzle. They usually go away with a confused look and drag their snout in the dirt trying to get the stuff off. On a really angry dog you may be SOL as they have a pain threshold that is downright unbelievable. Be ready to deploy alternate means should the spray fail.
Finally, I HIGHLY suggest that if you are going to carry OC for defense that you take a hit from the brand you are going to carry (under controlled conditions of course) so you will know what it will and wont do and how you will react if the wind shifts and you get caught in the backspray. A lot of the effectiveness of OC is based on the suprise factor. Knowing what is coming helps.
Brands that I have seen used to good effect:
FOX
Sabre
MACE 5.5 or 10%
Freeze +P
Try to stay away from the water based sprays, PDs went to them for fear of setting people on fire with a taser after spraying them. The solvent based sprays (such as Fox) penetrate the skin faster and have a much quicker onset. The water sprays seem to take up to 10 seconds to really "heat up" once deployed.
As far as dogs go, the liquid stream seems to work pretty well. Aim for their eyes and muzzle. They usually go away with a confused look and drag their snout in the dirt trying to get the stuff off. On a really angry dog you may be SOL as they have a pain threshold that is downright unbelievable. Be ready to deploy alternate means should the spray fail.
Finally, I HIGHLY suggest that if you are going to carry OC for defense that you take a hit from the brand you are going to carry (under controlled conditions of course) so you will know what it will and wont do and how you will react if the wind shifts and you get caught in the backspray. A lot of the effectiveness of OC is based on the suprise factor. Knowing what is coming helps.
Siggyboy
Member
So what is an all around better choice for the civilian user, stream or cone fog? Will the fog spray be effective in wind or at more of a distance? What are the pros and cons of these two alternatives?
10shooter
Member
Stream is good for upto 20'. Never had experience with a fog spray.
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