Personal Confrontations With Long Guns

[Fred Fuller]

We often discuss various self- defense issues that are covered in the lecture notes outlined at the link below. I hope anyone here on THR who keeps a shotgun or carbine as a home defense weapon will read these notes and think about them as well as some of the areas we have covered in discussions here.
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http://www.teddytactical.com/archive/MonthlyStudy/2006/05_StudyDay.htm

Monthly Lecture 05-2006

PERSONAL CONFRONTATIONS

WITH LONG GUNS

By: Skip Gochenour
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For example, people often wonder why it is that 'old hands' here and elsewhere recommend keeping a shotgun's chamber empty until it is deployed. People new to the idea often insist that it allows for the use of that guaranteed badguy-heartstopping sound of a pumpgun's action being racked to chamber a round. Actually the explanation is a lot simpler and far more pragmatic- sporting shotguns adapted to defensive use are not military grade weapons, and do not have 'drop safe' safeties that lock the firing pin or hammer when engaged. Safety mechanisms on sporting shotguns almost universally block only the movement of the trigger, and the weapon is not 'drop safe.' At C. 4) f) in the outline we find: "...if the weapon is absent a drop proof safety, the action is operated to make the weapon ready for firing..."

This outline is well worth reading and thinking about in light of developing your own skill set with your chosen HD weapon- be it handgun, carbine or shotgun- to the level of "unconscious competence."

lpl/nc

 

[ArmedBear]

...also something to remember while hunting in rough country, too, especially if there are other hunters with you or in the area!

But what guns are "military-grade"?

590? 870? Only certain variants of the above?

Certainly the military has used Model 97's and 12's, 870s in a variety of configurations, 590's, Ithaca 37's, and probably a few others, in combat zones. AFAIK the Remington and Mossberg guns are in American military service as we speak.

Any information?

 

[Hoppy590]

well i cant speak for certainty but i can image any trigger frame mounted saftey is more likely to be a trigger block safty, not an action block. either way better safe than dead.

 

[ArmedBear]

Given that the firing and loading mechanism of an 870 drops out as a single unit, I don't think you can assume that one way or another. The button is part of the unit, and could act on any other part.

The only obvious hammer-block safeties are the ones that have been grafted onto old lever-action rifle designs like the Marlin 336 and 1894/5, because you can see the hammer and you can see the safety.

Anything else could be whatever it is.

 

[Fred Fuller]

AB,

The military and law enforcement use pretty much the same shotguns available to private citizens. That's why LE training for the most part emphasizes 'cruiser ready' mode for shotguns in transport, because of safety considerations.

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/ayoob031221.html

... Remember that no shotguns have internal firing pin locks. This means that if a shell is in the chamber and the gun is struck sharply against a hard object at either muzzle or butt end, inertia can cause the firing pin to bounce forward against its spring and unintentionally fire the shotgun. This is why shotguns in police cars are ALWAYS kept with loaded magazines but empty firing chambers. For the same reasons, a shotgun stored loaded in the home for family defense should be a magazine-type weapon kept with its firing chamber empty. It is customary to hunt with rounds in the guns’ chambers, and this is why the “Ten Commandments of Firearms Safety” for hunters includes admonitions to unload the gun and set it down before crossing fences, and to always keep the muzzle pointed in a safe direction. ...

lpl/nc

 

[Freddymac]

Thanks for the heads-up.

You bring up a great point that I think many of us may not have thought about, I know that I have not. For HD I use my HK USP45 and my CAR15 and my GF uses my Sig 229. The USP is condition one; the other two have full mags, but an empty chamber. I was thinking of getting a shotgun for HD because I am a little afraid of over penetration with the .223. This is something that I will keep in mind while shopping.

 

[ball3006]

Your information is flawed.....

I have a Savage 720 US and a Model 12 US and they are identical to the civilian shotgun. My wife keeps her shotgun handy with the slide open just for the sound effect. I, on the other hand, use a double barrel, so you don't know I am there until the shot/slug rips through you. You CANNOT rely on a mechanical safety. The BEST safety on a firearm is the one mounted between your ears.......chris3

 

[Fred Fuller]

ball3006,

Please expand your statement a bit. WHICH information is flawed, and WHOSE information is flawed? These are important points and clarity is essential.

It is true that safeties are mechanical devices, and mechanical devices can and do fail. Thus careful observance of the 4 Rules is always paramount. Yet even the 'safety between your ears' is subject to mistakes, brain fades and accidents- while careful gunhandling is a saving virtue in almost all cases, still even the "BEST safety" can fail.

lpl/nc