Phase 2 and conclusions (vague) Comparing grapefruit to oranges/Plains Pistol.

[Ugly Sauce]

Surprisingly to me, the .54" ball penetrated slightly more than the 240 grain .50" slug, but did considerably more damage to the block it passed through before it embedded it's self in the post. The lower hole in the post is from the .50" the upper hole from the .54". Nice way to treat my shooting bench, aye? As you know, both loaded over 70 grains of 3fg, old-stock Goex I believe.

The strength of the block may have been compromised by the previous .50" 240 grain slug going through it. ? To really know, I would have to repeat the test using a fresh block every time, but to my eye it looks like the ball did more damage. Thumped it harder. Split much of the block in half, as you can see.

Both .50" slug and .54" ball shed very little weight going through old seasoned, dense wood. They were both within 5 grains or less of their original weight.

Enough difference to make a difference? Not really. Ease of loading dictates, to me, that the .54" is the best choice for giving Grizz a headache. On the other hand, one does not have to feel sorry for themselves, like I used to do, for not having a .54" barrel. The 240 grain "PA Conical" is a real thumper out of a pistol. But again, a real pain to load in a fouled barrel, which could be a real handicap in the field. They (the 240 grain PA) are .512", perhaps one could swage them down to .500" or a little less without losing too much accuracy. ? They are accurate.

Anyhow, the Plains Pistol loaded heavy is a serious power house, as far as pistols go. And you know it when you pull the trigger. No kidding. I have much greater faith now in it's effectiveness in the field, if ever it should be called upon. Only one shot one chance, but if I can't keep my cool and make my shot good, then I deserve what I get. !!!!

Okay, the "Baby Beast" says: "thanks for listening".

 

[hawg]

Cool Beans! I'm not surprised at the power. Most people think the cap and ball revolvers were more powerful but they're a joke power wise.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Oh yeah, even the Walker is weak in comparison.

 

[TTv2]

Walker holds more shots tho, a trade off as always.

I'm not surprised to hear the .54 has more power and does more damage, that's kind of assumed because of how big it is. I'm not much into muzzleloading rifles, but I've seen more talk about the .50 than .54 in those, so I assume they're more popular and for trajectory it's going to be a bit better, but out of a pistol the bigger bore is the way to go.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Oh yeah, even the Walker is weak in comparison.

A Walker is capable of 60 grains of powder per hole for a total of 360 grns. It's basically a 45 caliber rifle load. Granted it's not the same as your 54 but it still commands respect.

 

[hawg]

A Walker is capable of 60 grains of powder per hole for a total of 360 grns. It's basically a 45 caliber rifle load. Granted it's not the same as your 54 but it still commands respect.

Pretty wimpy load for a rifle unless you're talking about cartridge rifles and they didn't exist back in the day. Just sayin.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

A Walker is capable of 60 grains of powder per hole for a total of 360 grns. It's basically a 45 caliber rifle load. Granted it's not the same as your 54 but it still commands respect.

I respect the Walker. Just that due it's weight, I'd prefer a carbine. !!! There is the question of multiple shots, adding the total energy of those up and comparing that to the one-shot. I think that all depends on the situation and purpose of the side arm. Pack of wolves, I think the Walker is superior. Grizz, in a Grizz encounter I tend to believe one might or most likely only get one shot, so multiple shots, with much less power probably won't win the day. ? Just brain-storming.

Six shots out of the Plains Pistol, at 70 grains, is 470 grains of pixie dust. And that is behind 220 grains of lead, vs. 140 grains of lead. Using a 220 grain slug in the Walker would reduce that 60 grains quite a bit. But even 40 grains behind a 220 grain .454" slug would drop Grizz if you placed it right on his/her nose. That commands my respect! I kind of think in terms of one shot, because even if the sidearm is capable of multiple shots, I think, but don't know, that one is only going to get one shot.

On the other hand, I never look at the side arm in a vacuum, or the only arm carried. For my purposes, it's not one or the other. I always pair my pistols with another weapon, in a way that makes sense to me. (probably no one else!) A revolver paired with a powerful rifle (Jeager) or musket. (Bess). The single shot pistol I find/think is a good companion to a powerful bow and arrow. (the last time I trekked with bow and arrow, and the Plains Pistol, I kind of regretted it later. Now, seeing how powerful it really is, I'm up for doing it again)

So yes, the Walker commands respect, but the single shot pistol, loaded heavy, is it's DADDY!!!

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Walker holds more shots tho, a trade off as always.

I'm not surprised to hear the .54 has more power and does more damage, that's kind of assumed because of how big it is. I'm not much into muzzleloading rifles, but I've seen more talk about the .50 than .54 in those, so I assume they're more popular and for trajectory it's going to be a bit better, but out of a pistol the bigger bore is the way to go.

In a more "scientific" test, I think they might come out about the same. If I'd done it with round balls in each, the .54" would be the clear winner, so no test needed. In a "real" test, I would have used fresh blocks for each test, and multiple shots. And of course in a different medium, such as ballistic gel, wet newspaper, etc., there could/would be different results.

What made it interesting to me was that projectile weight was close, powder charge identical, but frontal area of the projectiles and sectional density was very different. What surprised me was that my guess was that with more sectional density, less frontal area, and a small advantage in bullet weight, that the .50" bullet/slug would out penetrate the .54" ball.

I guess my conclusion is that the .50 caliber Plains Pistol is equal to a .54", when the .50" is loaded with a slug. For my purposes, the difficulty of reloading the .50" slug for follow up shots takes it out of the competition. ! I suppose shooting a slug out of the .54" would really put it in the lead, but I believe, for me anyways, that 70 grains behind a .54" ball is the limit as far as recoil is concerned. The recoil is about the same as a .44magnum, but the shape/balance/ergonomics of the Plains Pistol makes it really want to flip up and back, more than a .44mag revolver. If you are not holding it just right, (there is a technique) it will smack you between the eyes. As will a .44 mag revolver, but the single shot/Plains Pistol is worse.

 

[HB]

For my purposes, the difficulty of reloading the .50" slug for follow up shots takes it out of the competition

If you need a fast reload, you might have the wrong gun!!!

I can’t imagine the recoil with bullets out of a pistol. The Hornady Great Plains .50 385gr bullets out of my Hawken are brutal. I’ve yet to shoot a deer with one but I have no doubt it will penetrate. Shooting roundballs out of the same rifle and charge is very pleasant.

While the bullets do get hard to load with fouling, I can never see myself needing to reload in a hunting situation that quickly. Either the deer is down or it ran off to die. I can’t see a deer sticking around long enough that reload time is that pressing.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Guess that depends on where you are and how badly pressed the deer are. The last Mule deer I shot with a muzzleloader bounced off to about 70 yards, turned and watched me reload after missing with the first shot. He didn't get to see the second reload.

 

[hawg]

Guess that depends on where you are and how badly pressed the deer are. The last Mule deer I shot with a muzzleloader bounced off to about 70 yards, turned and watched me reload after missing with the first shot. He didn't get to see the second reload.

Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. I had three does in a field once. I shot one with my Hawken and she dropped. My procedure after I shoot any deer is to wait a few minutes. By the time I got loaded again one of the other does came back and sniffed all over the dead one. She should have run off with the other one.

 

[hawg]

I might have to try to get me one of them thar magnum pistolas to go with my rifle gun.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I might have to try to get me one of them thar magnum pistolas to go with my rifle gun.

Do it!!! You would love it. NO JOKE!

 

[hawg]

Do it!!! You would love it. NO JOKE!

I still haven't got straightened out after buying the Kibler.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

If you need a fast reload, you might have the wrong gun!!!

I can’t imagine the recoil with bullets out of a pistol. The Hornady Great Plains .50 385gr bullets out of my Hawken are brutal. I’ve yet to shoot a deer with one but I have no doubt it will penetrate. Shooting roundballs out of the same rifle and charge is very pleasant.

While the bullets do get hard to load with fouling, I can never see myself needing to reload in a hunting situation that quickly. Either the deer is down or it ran off to die. I can’t see a deer sticking around long enough that reload time is that pressing.

Truth, but I don't carry the pistol for hunting. It is for stopping things from scratching, biting, or eating me.

I would not attempt to shoot one of those 385 grain bullets out of the pistol/.50" barrel. That would far exceed my ability to control the recoil. I have already found that the 240 grain PA conical is my limit. I do shoot those 385's out of my TC rifle, and yes they are brutal, with only an 80 grain charge. I'm quite sure a slug in the .54" barrel would be over my threshold for recoil, in the pistol. I have no plans to try one.

The hope is that if one shot didn't kill, but stunned the beast for a moment, a fast reload would/could/might save the day. For that purpose I carry paper cartridges, tear-ram-cap. It's pretty fast. That's a good solution for the .54" barrel, but in the .50" barrel I would have to use a ball in a paper cartridge, and any follow up or second shot would be much weaker than the slug. It wouldn't be chopped liver, but with the .54" barrel it would be the same load/powder charge. Just not as accurate as the patched ball load, but plenty accurate for ten-foot or ten yards away.

So, no, deer are not on the menu, other than in a starvation-survival situation. It's a wandering, trekking, exploring gun in the deep wilderness and mountains.

And I will bring this up before someone else does, yes, I could carry my .44 Magnum revolver, or never hit the wilderness without my .45-70 or .350RemMag, but...what fun is that? Wandering the wilderness with primitive weapons is the name of the game, and the spice of life. Do you want to live forever?

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I still haven't got straightened out after buying the Kibler.

I wonder if a Kibler pistol kit is in the future plans? That would be a winner. And why not? Many would want to pair one up with their rifle.

 

[hawg]

I wonder if a Kibler pistol kit is in the future plans? That would be a winner. And why not? Many would want to pair one up with their rifle.

Fowler coming next and there's talk about a percussion Hawken. Nothing about a pistol. At least not anytime soon.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Fowler coming next and there's talk about a percussion Hawken. Nothing about a pistol. At least not anytime soon.

Yes, the smooth bore will be a winner. I think a pistol would be a bigger hit than a Hawken. Wonder if he/they have considered it. ?

 

[hawg]

Yes, the smooth bore will be a winner. I think a pistol would be a bigger hit than a Hawken. Wonder if he/they have considered it. ?

I think so too. I don't think that many people are going to want an authentic Hawken.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Right, the Hawken craze seems to have died down. And an authentic Hawken is a heavy beast.

 

[hawg]

Right, the Hawken craze seems to have died down. And an authentic Hawken is a heavy beast.

I never thought mine was all that heavy but compared to the Woodsrunner it's a heavy beast.

 

[Ugly Sauce]

I may be wrong, but weren't the original Hawken rifles around 12 pounds? Seems like I remember that Kit Carson's was a 12 pound rifle. Or not? Seems like they had very heavy barrels on them, 1" or more across the flats, and not real big holes in the middle.

 

[HB]

Truth, but I don't carry the pistol for hunting. It is for stopping things from scratching, biting, or eating me.

I would not attempt to shoot one of those 385 grain bullets out of the pistol/.50" barrel. That would far exceed my ability to control the recoil. I have already found that the 240 grain PA conical is my limit. I do shoot those 385's out of my TC rifle, and yes they are brutal, with only an 80 grain charge. I'm quite sure a slug in the .54" barrel would be over my threshold for recoil, in the pistol. I have no plans to try one.

The hope is that if one shot didn't kill, but stunned the beast for a moment, a fast reload would/could/might save the day. For that purpose I carry paper cartridges, tear-ram-cap. It's pretty fast. That's a good solution for the .54" barrel, but in the .50" barrel I would have to use a ball in a paper cartridge, and any follow up or second shot would be much weaker than the slug. It wouldn't be chopped liver, but with the .54" barrel it would be the same load/powder charge. Just not as accurate as the patched ball load, but plenty accurate for ten-foot or ten yards away.

So, no, deer are not on the menu, other than in a starvation-survival situation. It's a wandering, trekking, exploring gun in the deep wilderness and mountains.

And I will bring this up before someone else does, yes, I could carry my .44 Magnum revolver, or never hit the wilderness without my .45-70 or .350RemMag, but...what fun is that? Wandering the wilderness with primitive weapons is the name of the game, and the spice of life. Do you want to live forever?

Sounds like you need a spontoon like Lewis carried!

 

[Ugly Sauce]

Sounds like you need a spontoon like Lewis carried!

Ha ha don't laugh. !!! Look at my avatar. Sometimes I carry a spear. The truth.

 

[woodnbow]

Guess that depends on where you are and how badly pressed the deer are. The last Mule deer I shot with a muzzleloader bounced off to about 70 yards, turned and watched me reload after missing with the first shot. He didn't get to see the second reload.

Muleys are semi famous for that. Bounce away a hundred yards or so and then take a look back. I notice the really big muleys just keep bouncing…