Panzerschwein
member
The Bersas are excellent guns of the utmost quality and affordable. They are a little "snappy" but a .380 in hand beats a .500 left in the half track.
Phoenix 22 or Bersa 380
- Thread starter rvenneman
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MedWheeler
Member
gsbuickman writes:
The frame on the Thunder 380 is made from an aluminum alloy. The slide and barrel are steel.
But, yes, as I've mentioned before, it's still a very manageable shooter.
The frame on the Thunder 380 is made from an aluminum alloy. The slide and barrel are steel.
But, yes, as I've mentioned before, it's still a very manageable shooter.
toivo
Member
There are three on Gunbroker now -- two used, one new:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Firearms/BI.aspx?Keywords=bersa+thunder+.22
MedWheeler
Member
Bersaguy, they're made from similar materials, but are not otherwise the same, as the Phoenix is hammer-fired, has a different magazine release (for the thumb, the way we know it, instead of a heel-mounted one), and a rear sight that is adjustable for windage.
The picture you cite is indeed that of the HP22A.
The picture you cite is indeed that of the HP22A.
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Coyote3855
Member
Classic Firearms has the Beretta 85F for $399. I ordered one and it is like new. Only a single stack though, 8 rounds. Nice pistol, light recoil, reliable through 200 rounds. Student in our Basic Pistol class has the Bersa, also a fine gun.
Panzerschwein
member
How big is it?
toivo
Member
The Beretta 85F is roughly the same size as the Bersa Thunder, maybe a smidgen bigger. Be advised, though, that they are sprung pretty tightly, making them difficult to rack.
bannockburn
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Cooldill
Have had both a Beretta Model 84 and a Model 85. Didn't have any trouble racking the slide on either gun and both were extremely reliable with anything I ran through them. Used the Model 84 primarily for home defense as I felt it was just a little too thick in the grip area for concealed carry. Though I thought the Model 85 was a bit too big for a .380, it was a very ergonomic design and an easy and comfortable gun to shoot. I did find it to be a great semi-auto for new shooters to begin with. Both guns were more than accurate enough for the job at hand.
Have had both a Beretta Model 84 and a Model 85. Didn't have any trouble racking the slide on either gun and both were extremely reliable with anything I ran through them. Used the Model 84 primarily for home defense as I felt it was just a little too thick in the grip area for concealed carry. Though I thought the Model 85 was a bit too big for a .380, it was a very ergonomic design and an easy and comfortable gun to shoot. I did find it to be a great semi-auto for new shooters to begin with. Both guns were more than accurate enough for the job at hand.
Panzerschwein
member
Cool those Berettas are sure peaches! I'll bet the quality is even better than the Bersas. We use M9s at work and I do like them.
chardin
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I have a Bersa FireStorm in 22. It is pretty reliable now that the factory saw to it. Let me know if you want to arrange a sale. Note: I do not have an FFL, so we'd need one at both ends, I believe.
bannockburn
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Cooldill
Yes the quality of those Berettas was first class, both in their design and in their construction. Not to take anything away from Bersa but I think the comparable Beretta has the edge in terms of build quality and overall fit and finish. I would also add that the trigger pulls on both guns, in double and single action, were very nice; fairly clean and smooth.
Yes the quality of those Berettas was first class, both in their design and in their construction. Not to take anything away from Bersa but I think the comparable Beretta has the edge in terms of build quality and overall fit and finish. I would also add that the trigger pulls on both guns, in double and single action, were very nice; fairly clean and smooth.
toivo
Member
I was thinking of the OP, who said his wife's hands "are not as good as they used to be." I think somebody with those issues might have trouble with the Beretta.
Mauser lover
Member
Oh man, don't get the Phoenix. It is a fun and cheap range toy and a good "gopher gun" as I would call it (for sticking in a pocket or iwb holster when on a walk), and surprisingly accurate. It even works really well... for a few hundred rounds.
For carry, there isn't even any question. Too "snaggy", too many safeties, slightly less than perfect ignition (rimfire and all that), less than perfect extraction when fouled (meaning... fouled at all, exacerbated by the waxy lubes on most .22 LR) and etcetera!
Mushy single action trigger too. Although the Bersa might not be any better.
For carry, there isn't even any question. Too "snaggy", too many safeties, slightly less than perfect ignition (rimfire and all that), less than perfect extraction when fouled (meaning... fouled at all, exacerbated by the waxy lubes on most .22 LR) and etcetera!
Mushy single action trigger too. Although the Bersa might not be any better.
bannockburn
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toivo
That's interesting as I have had a number of Berettas and never have found their slides too hard to rack. My hands are not particularly large nor do I have all that strong of a grip. I always felt that due to their open top design Beretta slides were fairly lightweight and therefore a bit easier to get into operation than more conventionally designed slides. Never have heard any negative feedback from others who have used my Berettas at the range either.
That's interesting as I have had a number of Berettas and never have found their slides too hard to rack. My hands are not particularly large nor do I have all that strong of a grip. I always felt that due to their open top design Beretta slides were fairly lightweight and therefore a bit easier to get into operation than more conventionally designed slides. Never have heard any negative feedback from others who have used my Berettas at the range either.
IF you are more concerned with recoil, look into a CZ50/70 or FEG in 32/7.65. Easy to shoot and same Walther-style as the Bersa.
IF you are also concerned about operation (strength needed for slide operation), consider one of the Beretta tip-ups (3032 or 86 if you can find one), or a S&W 30/31 in 32 S&W Long. If you don't intend on reaming to 32 H&R, the older I-frames are a bit smaller. Some older Charter Undercoverettes also hold 6 vs the current 5.
Phoenix pistols require standard pressure ammo to last, which makes them a little harder to feed. You have to be willing to work on them if you want to carry. The factory manual of arms is rudiculously lawyer-resistant.
IF you are also concerned about operation (strength needed for slide operation), consider one of the Beretta tip-ups (3032 or 86 if you can find one), or a S&W 30/31 in 32 S&W Long. If you don't intend on reaming to 32 H&R, the older I-frames are a bit smaller. Some older Charter Undercoverettes also hold 6 vs the current 5.
Phoenix pistols require standard pressure ammo to last, which makes them a little harder to feed. You have to be willing to work on them if you want to carry. The factory manual of arms is rudiculously lawyer-resistant.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
The felt recoil in a Bersa .380 and a Walther PPK .380 is roughly the same, IMO. For some reason a Bersa fits my hand a tad better though, so I can get more rounds through it before I'm done.
Alte Schule
Member
I have a Bersa Thunder and picked up a gently used Italian import Beretta 84 F Cheetah .380 double stack a few weeks ago. Comparing the slide operation on both I find the Beretta takes a little more effort than the Bersa but it's not, what I would say, difficult.
I have had at least one Bersa Thunder in my safe for the last twenty years. I have found them so reliable that I gave one each to my wife and her sister, both gals are over 60, after they completed their basic firearms training. I also gave the Thunder C. C. model to my brother as a Christmas present a few years ago. Their great handguns for the money.
I have had at least one Bersa Thunder in my safe for the last twenty years. I have found them so reliable that I gave one each to my wife and her sister, both gals are over 60, after they completed their basic firearms training. I also gave the Thunder C. C. model to my brother as a Christmas present a few years ago. Their great handguns for the money.
toivo
Member
I guess everybody's experience is different. I find blowback .380s to be harder to rack in general, and the open top of the Beretta 85 gives you less to hang onto for an overhand grip on the slide. The tightest-sprung pistols I own are the 85 and a SIG P232. Compared to those two, any fixed-breech pistol is a piece of cake.
MedWheeler
Member
Didn't catch if someone mentioned this in this thread yet, but the slide on the Bersa is much easier to rack if the hammer is thumb-cocked beforehand. This is true, of course, with pretty much any pistol that has a hammer that can be so cocked. Just tossing that out there...
My Bersa T380 is totally reliable and very comfortable to shoot after I added the wraparound "combat" rubber grips. Midway-about $15 if I remember correctly.
I handload, so I can use light loads if I want. About like a .22 but factory loads are comfortable, too.
The trigger is great after 400-500 rds.
Good luck!
I handload, so I can use light loads if I want. About like a .22 but factory loads are comfortable, too.
The trigger is great after 400-500 rds.
Good luck!
Great idea.. I need to try that on my Polish P64..
MedWheeler
Member
^^ It will definitely make a difference with your Polish P64. Those things have like a 40lb mainspring. 
I really don't have much experience with the Phoenix. I know people who have them that are very satisfied.
Between the Phoenix and the Bersa for a SD pistol there is no choice AFAIC. I'd take the Bersa. In fact I already have.
The Bersa has the best DA of any DA/SA auto I've ever shot. I've been carrying PPs/PPKs/PPKSs for about 40 years. The Bersa doesn't have the hammer bite of the Walthers and is not ammo sensitive.
Between the Phoenix and the Bersa for a SD pistol there is no choice AFAIC. I'd take the Bersa. In fact I already have.
The Bersa has the best DA of any DA/SA auto I've ever shot. I've been carrying PPs/PPKs/PPKSs for about 40 years. The Bersa doesn't have the hammer bite of the Walthers and is not ammo sensitive.
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