Pick an AR in 308 for hunting

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My DPMS LR 308 is not the lightest AR on the block but is one of the sweetest shoooters in town. I have a Leupold 3x9 scope and a fixed magpul stock with a Veltor muzzle brake. Not only is this an accurate rifle but just about the softest shooting .308!you will find', I understand the new GII is a great rifle also".
 
I hunt northern MN where bucks grow BIG. Trophy bucks generally weigh 225 -275 lbs gutted. The longest shot I have in my stand is 265 yards down a shooting lane. The bigger conern is most my shots are close range in poppel thickets. I want the knockdown power and better ability to bust through some brush at close range. Plus I have a few other guns in 308 so I like to keep ammo the same. Just to be clear I don't by any means NEED this gun. I just want one.
 
As an FYI, the DPMS GII AP4 uses a 16" chrome lined bore/chamber 4150 lightweight barrel (.750 gas block). The factory muzzle device is very good at negating recoil, but it is quite loud. Seriously though, at 6.8lbs, I dont think you can find a lighter weight AR10 that doesnt cost as much as a good used car. I would like one of those, What is the accuracy like?
 
Casefull said:
As an FYI, the DPMS GII AP4 uses a 16" chrome lined bore/chamber 4150 lightweight barrel (.750 gas block). The factory muzzle device is very good at negating recoil, but it is quite loud. Seriously though, at 6.8lbs, I dont think you can find a lighter weight AR10 that doesnt cost as much as a good used car. I would like one of those, What is the accuracy like?
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Please note, I am not the type of guy to shoot 20 groups and cherry pick the best ones. I shoot a 5 shot group and as long as I'm confident the trigger control was good, thats it. Accuracy depends massively on the ammo used. Cheap WalMart ZQI shoots into shotgun esque patterns not even worth measuring. M80 ball is about 2", depending on brand, some better some worse. Inexpensive PPU match is about 1.5". I stick with cheap FMJ ball, its good enough to hit steel at 600m. I never plan on shooting any ammo more expensive than $.60/rd.
 
I have a couple from the fulton armory DPMS type and then a few uppers.
the ideal is 20" but no shorter than 18" that with a medium profile quality barrel should be a good shooter.
My best shooter is a 20" krieger barrel and then a 18" AR15 performance barrel melonited.
I built them light but not too light that is something you don't want with the 308 anyway.
I have one upper in 358 winchester that is brutal and possibly the best hunting round for anything including the largest game in America.
For white tail, hogs, mountain goat and mule deer, the 308w with a barnes 130gr TTSX shoots like a laser beam and hits like a 270.
 
Nature Boy said:
I'd love a semi-auto .358 win
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That is precisely why I built the upper. 225gr accubond @ 2,600fps will quickly bring down anything walking on this continent.
I upgraded the recoil pad but the action also takes a bit of the edge out of it.
I have also been shooting 357 180gr pistol bullets for practice. A white tail smasher too.
Never understood why the 358 winchester and 35 whelen are not more popular in North America.
 
1stmarine said:
That is precisely why I built the upper. 225gr accubond @ 2,600fps will quickly bring down anything walking on this continent.
I upgraded the recoil pad but the action also takes a bit of the edge out of it.
I have also been shooting 357 180gr pistol bullets for practice. A white tail smasher too.
Never understood why the 358 winchester and 35 whelen are not more popular in North America.
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how can you get that FPS with 225 gr in a semi auto 358 when a 30-06 can not push that 225 bullet that speed and a hot loaded 338-06 can barely do it?
 
salt&battery said:
how can you get that FPS with 225 gr in a semi auto 358 when a 30-06 can not push that 225 bullet that speed and a hot loaded 338-06 can barely do it?
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This is a 35 bore and not a 30 or 338 caliber that is why.
These are reloads with IMR 4895 and W478 shot from a pacnor 23" super match barrel.
225gr commercial loads from Buffalo Bore and Double tap are not too far behind.
The 35Win upper will also push a 250gr bullet well above 2400fps.
Talking about the 30-06 case necked up to 35 caliber, that is the 35 whelen, it will push a 250gr bullet to 2600fps and a 310gr one to 2300fps but not sure from an autoloader like a R750 although
I don't think it would show a huge difference.
These 35 calibers offer a great alternative to magnums to tackle the largest game given the distances are kept withing the average hunting ranges.
makes sense?
 
Casefull said:
What 4-5 lb .308 bolt guns are you shooting? My kimber mt. ascent is 4 lbs, 13 oz.(bare rifle) The leupold scope on it is less than 1lb with rings. I climb up and down the rockies during hunting season and am 65, a couple of pounds is a big deal for me.
I have a montana in 308 which is about 5 lbs bare. My 300 wsm montana is closer to 6 lbs.
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Yeah, the Kimbers are a really light platform. If I was going for a light weight rig I think this would be my platform. Nice rifles too. There are definitely some light weight options out there, but let's face it, it isn't uncommon for a bolt gun to weigh 7-8.5 lbs without optic. The .308 AR isn't far away form those. It definitely not a lightweight option, but it also isn't far off.
 
I was considering an ar10 platform but have been turned down by the weight issue everyone had mentioned. my dad hunts with an armalite ar10 (Standard flat top) with scope and 20 round steel mag. ouch. My hunting buddy recently bought what i believe is a dpms in a lightweight configuration. A lot lighter than the armalite.

I wanted the performance of a .308 at close range but the lightweight platform of the ar15. The answer for me was building a 300 blackout rifle. Most if not all of the deer that I have shot are within 50 yard (Realistically given the opportunity for a clear shot, within 25 yards) so I don't need a 300+ yard gun. I have used it for the past 3 years and have had very good experience with it. I load my own ammo so I get the most out of my gun. the 125gr nosler ballistic tips really get the job done.
 
Have you actually put a DPMS Gen II on the scale, or are you just going by claimed weight? Claimed weight often does not reflect reality
 
MistWolf said:
Have you actually put a DPMS Gen II on the scale, or are you just going by claimed weight? Claimed weight often does not reflect reality
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Postal accurate scale, DPMS GII AP4, 6.8lbs with MFT stock. For comparison, my M16A1 clone weighs 7.1 lbs. I weigh almost all my parts and log them.
 
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I recently handled a Daniel Defense DD5 V1 and was thoroughly impressed. If I get a .308 AR, that's who's getting my money.
 
1stmarine said:
This is a 35 bore and not a 30 or 338 caliber that is why.
These are reloads with IMR 4895 and W478 shot from a pacnor 23" super match barrel.
225gr commercial loads from Buffalo Bore and Double tap are not too far behind.
The 35Win upper will also push a 250gr bullet well above 2400fps.
Talking about the 30-06 case necked up to 35 caliber, that is the 35 whelen, it will push a 250gr bullet to 2600fps and a 310gr one to 2300fps but not sure from an autoloader like a R750 although
I don't think it would show a huge difference.
These 35 calibers offer a great alternative to magnums to tackle the largest game given the distances are kept withing the average hunting ranges.
makes sense?
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I realize the bore is .35 but from what I have seen the 338 bore is the best for the 06 case. in the hornady manual the 358 max load for 250 gr bullet is 2300 FPS and the 35 whelen same bullet is at 2500 so your velocities are optimistic lol. the 30-338 will propel a 180 gr at 3000 fps 200 at 2900fps and a 250 gr at 2600 fps this is why I think the 338 gets the most out of an 06 case. I am with you on these rifles being as good as the magnums if not better at real hunting ranges
 
biggameballs said:
Was thinking the Laure PreadtAR or maybe a Wilson Combat or Daniel Defense?
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LMT LM8MRW. Very accurate and you can change calibers to .243, 7mm-08, 6.5 Creedmoore, and .338 Federal just by swapping barrels.

The make the Brit and NZ Designated Marksman Rifle.
 
Jackal said:
Postal accurate scale, DPMS GII AP4, 6.8lbs with MFT stock. For comparison, my M16A1 clone weighs 7.1 lbs. I weigh almost all my parts and log them.
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Very nice! I've been weighing my gear and what I've found had been eye opening. For example, a 20 round magazine loaded with 308 Win weighs about a pound and a half. The typical AR sling weighs about a half pound
 
Despite what everyone seems to think, the AR10/LR308 platform doesn't have to be a hog. With a little judicious part selection and a bit of research you can build a 6.1-6.2lb rifle without making any compromises. It can be low-recoil with an adjustable gas block and good brake.

Companies/Parts:
2A Armament receiver set
VSeven Weapon Systems parts
BattleArms Development parts
Mission First Tactical stock
Faxon pencil barrel or ProofResearch
Strike Industries dust cover and charging handle
JP 308 LMOS w/ extra spring kit
etc...
 
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arizona_cards_11 said:
Despite what everyone seems to think, the AR10/LR308 platform doesn't have to be a hog. With a little judicious part selection and a bit of research you can build a 6.1-6.2lb rifle without making any compromises. It can be low-recoil with an adjustable gas block and good brake.

Companies/Parts:
2A Armament receiver set
VSeven Weapon Systems parts
BattleArms Development parts
Mission First Tactical stock
Faxon pencil barrel or ProofResearch
Strike Industries dust cover and charging handle
JP 308 LMOS w/ extra spring kit
etc...
Click to expand...

I find my lightweight AR10's recoil to be about on par with a WASR.
 
AR10 equipment decision all goes back to how much OP wants to spend. You can buy a basic one and upgrade just what's necessary. You can acquire high end parts and build one. You can pay a lot for an off the shelf, high end one.
At the end of the day, it's deer hunting. It doesn't take a lot to take a deer and it depends on how OP hunts. A shorter barrel is handier for hunting out of a blind, still hunting, or stalking. Stand hunting makes little difference, even compared to a bolt action sporter.
If you get to your hunting spot and can't remember if it's loaded or not, bolt actions and single shots are silent to check. Fully racking an AR-10 is relatively loud. Sometimes checking by partially pulling back the charging handle works; sometimes the bolt can be pushed into battery with forward assist; sometimes it doesn't and at that point, you just have to extract and re-feed.
Depending on conservation regulations, you may need to buy or modify a mag for capacity limits while hunting.
And even though the typical answer when talking capacity on a forum will always be, "more is better", it doesn't matter nearly as much when deer hunting. One well located shot is all that is required. Additional shots just increase the unedible portions IMHO.
Lastly, all the "how light can I get it" in terms of deer hunting seem silly to me. For elk, for sheep, and for whatever is to be hunted in the mountains and on the cliffs needs to be lightweight since that is hiking with a rifle. Deer hunting is more about scouting locations, being in position, and not being detected. An AR-10 rifle is well enough for the job and has the power for a clean, humane kill. It is probably preferable from a blind compared to a 24" bolt action sporter, and also more ergonomic and quicker on the draw. However, the same could be said for a 30-30 FWIW.

-C17
 
salt&battery said:
I realize the bore is .35 but from what I have seen the 338 bore is the best for the 06 case. in the hornady manual the 358 max load for 250 gr bullet is 2300 FPS and the 35 whelen same bullet is at 2500 so your velocities are optimistic lol. the 30-338 will propel a 180 gr at 3000 fps 200 at 2900fps and a 250 gr at 2600 fps this is why I think the 338 gets the most out of an 06 case. I am with you on these rifles being as good as the magnums if not better at real hunting ranges
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Hi @salt&battery,

The 338 is an excellent choice too specially in the 30-06 case. I think some folks go for the 35 due to the capability to propel substantially heavier bullets at very decent speeds and very
effective at the average ranges people normally hunt with still manageable barrels lengths of 21-23". And one might also use cost effective 357 magnum/maximum 180gr-200gr bullets
to hunt deer or hogs in brush country or simply for affordable practice.

The main issue is that the reloading manuals are wrong starting with the lyman's and Hodgdon's online guide that are obsolete in many calibers. An ok starting reference but nothing else.

Also all is relative including the killing potential because we have to talk about speed and momentum at the time of striking and also add the frontal section and mass/design of the 358,
that even with less striking speeds, creates massive shock and wounding just like the 375.
IMO these calibers in magnums are just too much, unbearable recoil and for the average game will destroy a lot of meat.

If one doesn't want to reload for hunting there is the option to pay more and get premium ammo with premium bullets. Not sure who sells the 338-06.

A few manufactures load to full potential and they actually test their ammo. Of course these are also relative because it depends on your chambering/freebore, rifling, etc..
but it gives you a good idea of the potential of the 35 in popular rifles with premium loads vs. milder and cheaper commercial loads.

http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=303_334&product_id=312
Caliber : .358 Winchester
Bullet : 250gr Speer Hot Cor Jacketed Soft Point
Ballistics : 2425fps - 3264 ft./lbs. - 24.0" bbl. Ruger
Box of 20rds.

http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/product&path=303_330&product_id=192
Caliber : .35 Whelen
Bullet : 225gr Swift A-Frame
Ballistics : 2700fps - 3643 ft./lbs. - 24.0" bbl. Rem 700
Box of 20rds.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=245
225gr. Sierra SPTZ-BT @ 2545 fps out of a Ruger Hawkeye. (22 inch barrel) = 3,300+ ft-lb at the muzzle.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_detail&p=250
Item 42A features a Sierra 225gr. SPTZ-BT bullet @ 2705 fps out of my Remington 700. (24 inch bbl)

I think of the 35 and 375 as true hunter's calibers due to the long track record as fast killing cartridges.
As we know many other calibers are equality effective specially when careful consideration is taken to choosing the right bullets,
matching bullets to body weight and essentially being a good shot and a good hunter and realistic with expectations.

Would I need yet another upper in 358 winchester given the other choices and based on the work I have done with it? Probably not.
Is the 358 winchester a quick dispatcher of animals and meat harvester and a lot of fun to shoot in the northern woods? Hell yeah.

There is also the 35-284 for the short action and uppers but one has to draw a line so we don't go from hobby to insanity, although perhaps we are already there! lol.
 
1st Marine pleasure to talk with you and you are well versed in what the round will do. it is amazing what they are getting out of the 358 using expensive custom ammo maybe with their own type of high performance powder / rocket fuel. you are right they are all deadly rounds and I see no need for burning 75-100 grains of powder in a fire breathing magnum
 
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