Pietta "Old West" models: what am I missing?

[LoneGoose]

Just wanna say that my Pietta 1860 shoots very accurately with .454" balls over 28 gr. Pyrodex.

 

[Ephraim Kibbey]

1KPerDay - I just spoke, by phone, to a "product specialist" at Cabela's and he said that the only difference was the patina finish.

 

[CraigC]

aging

Craig you totally missed the point.
Yes I know it takes more than just a bit of vinegar or mustard.
But that is a starting point.
Also depends on how extreme you want to go.
A good rub down with either will remove the bluing gradually to the amount of wear you want.
Normal day to day use, and just using it, will add the dings and the scratches.
But most seem to want to keep this tool (and it is a tool) pristine as it came out of the box.
Even a fully professionally blued gun will rust. If it wouldn't, be no reason to clean and oil it.
Thus after you have removed the bluing to your satisfaction routine cleaning and oiling will eliminate the rust, and you can concern yourself with just shooting and enjoying the dang thing.
But I see no reason to pay roughly $60 to have a factory make a fake for you.
When a $3 bottle of vinegar and some one on one time will achieve the same look, and the satisfaction you did it yourself (which was the point).

You missed the point. I'm quite aware that I can take one of my finished guns, strip the finish and beat it up. I've contemplated it many times. My point is that these guns are meant to replicate a 150yr old relic. Not a newer old gun that's been carried for 20yrs. I've been carrying guns for 30yrs and I have never put that kind of wear on one. Why would I start now? Start dropping it every so often? Drag it behind my UTV? No. Maybe we don't place the same value on our time. A day's worth of work is worth a lot more than $60 to me and I can get a lot of leatherwork done in that time. So I'll gladly pay a little extra for the factory "Old West" finish or Cimarron's "original finish". In fact, my next sixgun will probably be a Uberti "Old West" .45x7½", like this 4¾". If that makes me "stupid or gullible", so be it.

 

[1KPerDay]

1KPerDay - I just spoke, by phone, to a "product specialist" at Cabela's and he said that the only difference was the patina finish.

thanks!

 

[kBob]

Couple of years back we had a large thread on antiquing replica revolvers. Some turned out very nice.

New folks might want to do a search and check the archives.

-kBob

 

[Dog Soldier]

It is strange. People these days are so busy they can not wear out things. They pay extra for worn jeans, shirts, boots and now firearms? We used to care for our firearms and age with them slowly. It is a fast food drive up World.

 

[CraigC]

It is strange. People these days are so busy they can not wear out things. They pay extra for worn jeans, shirts, boots and now firearms? We used to care for our firearms and age with them slowly. It is a fast food drive up World.

Not strange at all and the fast food analogy is an insult. Maybe 'some' folks would like to own an original 1800's Colt but cannot due to their exorbitant cost. Or if they did, would not want to shoot it due to the wear and fragility inherent in old guns. An aged replica is the next best thing and we don't have to be afraid to use it. We can also own a bunch of them. I don't know how one thinks that using a gun can somehow result in one that looks 150yrs old. Not even close to being the same thing.

Same reason why so many folks buy aged knives and leather. Because the aging is an art in and of itself and lends character not present in "new" stuff. Just like this John Cohea bowie and rawhide sheath. Would it be so appealing if it were not made to look old? Could you make it look this old in your lifetime? No. If it were not aged, it would look like a tourist trinket. The aging makes it look and "feel" authentic. Big difference.

 

[BCRider]

It is strange. People these days are so busy they can not wear out things. They pay extra for worn jeans, shirts, boots and now firearms? We used to care for our firearms and age with them slowly. It is a fast food drive up World.

True words and well put. And yes, it rapidly is turning into this sort of world.

I was just reading a news item about how merchants need to address their marketing strategy to aim at a whole new generation or two which typically have a 7 to 9 second attention span. The world is moving so fast that the last three generations are so used to constant change that they can't think past tomorrow, let alone years to come.

 

[Malachi Leviticus Blue]

There are folks who will pay for a shiny new looking revolver, and those that would prefer (Pay More) if it looks older, ore even a lot older. That's their business, and nothing wrong with that. One thing I'll point out is that if you are play acting that you are a gunslinger in the late 1800's remember back in the 1800's those revolvers were not 150 year old relics, they started out brand new right then and there.

 

[LonesomePigeon]

Antique revolvers that look new cost more and new revolvers that look antique cost more.

 

[DD4lifeusmc]

the artificial aged look is a discussion that will never be settled and nobody is right and nobody is wrong.
The bluing today is much better than a 100 yr ago, and with reasonable care will likely last longer than you and me.
Whether a modern gun or one of these replicas somebody will prefer it to be pristine looking, others a lot of wear looking.
Not including your time to do the antiqued look. and since this is a hobby / sport I would never attach a dollar figure to the time incurred.
Actually I look at more as in pride in ones craftsmanship ability, to achieve the desired look.
I got a 44 mag Ruger had it since late 70's got quite a bit of the bluing worn off by the muzzle from going in and out of the holster regularly.
Rest is pretty much new looking.
Then I have several replicas one is pristine as not used much. the others various shades of wear.
Over time they have hit the floor and the ground, fallen in the mud while hunting( I fell in the mud too).
They got minor nicks scratches and a lot of blue worn off just from use. Does not affect their ability to do what they were designed to do.
I'm saying for me I wouldn't waste $60 to buy one already antiqued( wouldn't buy jeans that way either).
If you want to that's fine, but I see it as a waste of money
With mass production and mass sales we have now, unlikely these guns will ever appreciate in value even when they become antiques any way.

 

[FiveStrings]

I picked up this Pietta a few years back at a Cabelas sale, and it wasn't one of Pietta's better efforts. It had a lot of issues I had to resolve plus I never really cared for the case colors. So, about 4 years ago, more as an experiment than for any other reason, I stripped off the bluing and most of the case colors off the barrel, cylinder and frame with vinegar. Just to see what would happen to the finish over time and use. After 4 years of regular shooting and cleaning, it's certainly not a 150-year old aged finish, but I think it is taking on a nice patina.

 

[1KPerDay]

Cool. Is that pitting on the cylinder?

 

[FiveStrings]

Yes, a little bit of pitting from a rust stain on the engraving.

 

[4v50 Gary]

Old Silver finish looks like it was polished and left in the buff. They save $$$ by not blue or chemically coloring it.

 

[CraigC]

The bluing today is much better than a 100 yr ago, and with reasonable care will likely last longer than you and me.

No it isn't. It's easier, cheaper and requires less labor but it's not "better". The old charcoal bluing that Colt used was/is one of the most durable of the blued finishes, second only to rust bluing.

Not including your time to do the antiqued look. and since this is a hobby / sport I would never attach a dollar figure to the time incurred. Actually I look at more as in pride in ones craftsmanship ability, to achieve the desired look.

Some of us have more money than time, others have more time than money. I'm of the former. I'm running two businesses and after 11yrs of working 365 days a year, I finally get to have two days off a week but now I have to manage employees. Same reason I don't change the oil in my vehicles or rotate my own tires. I'm fully capable of doing those things and more but it makes more sense to pay someone else to do it. I make decisions based on priority because I can. Same with reloading, I don't to it for fun, it's a chore to me. So I don't reload every single cartridge I shoot, only the ones that offer significant cost savings or those that may be unavailable otherwise. I don't handload .380, 9mm, .45ACP or .223 for this reason. I don't 'have' to do everything myself, so I don't. I'm happy with my pride being allocated to things other than antiquing guns. If it's worth it to you to antique a gun to save $60, which doesn't interest you anyway, then have at it. It's worth it to me to spend that $60-$100 and get exactly what I want right from the factory. Then I can spend the hours necessary making a matching antiqued leather rig for it. You see that $60 as a waste, in more ways than one. I don't. I see it as a very inexpensive way to come very close to owning a 150yr old relic, that I can actually shoot without worrying about 150yr old metallurgy. If you think that makes me "stupid or gullible", so be it.

I got a 44 mag Ruger had it since late 70's got quite a bit of the bluing worn off by the muzzle from going in and out of the holster regularly.
Rest is pretty much new looking.

Which is exactly why you can't achieve the 150yr old look with normal use.

Over time they have hit the floor and the ground, fallen in the mud while hunting( I fell in the mud too).
They got minor nicks scratches and a lot of blue worn off just from use. Does not affect their ability to do what they were designed to do.

I own four dozen single action revolvers. Most of them get used regularly. How long do you think it would take to make one look 150yrs old, the natural way, with smokeless powder??? Hmmmm, seems to be lot less "stupid" to just spend $60 for antiquing.

With mass production and mass sales we have now, unlikely these guns will ever appreciate in value even when they become antiques any way.

Who cares?


Bottom line is that an artificially aged Uberti will look a lot more at home in these rigs than a pristine sixgun. Which is the point.

 

[45 Dragoon]

As always , great looking stuff Craig !!!

Mike

 

[bannockburn]

Craig

Those two rigs of yours could make any sixgun look good just by being in the holster!

 

[CraigC]

Thanks!

 

[DD4lifeusmc]

yes nice looking gun rigs, but since we were discussing a commercially artificial aged look, how about a picture of those guns in the holster outside the holster.
You stated a aged gun would look better in those holsters. so are yours aged naturally from use, or artificially by you helping them along ( which is fine).
My argument ( if you will) is spending $60 plus dollars to buy it from Pietta already done. To me it's a waste of money.
They will age normally if you use them enough, or if you help them along with vinegar mustard steel wool etc, then you have the satisfaction of a job well done and can be proud of your skills in accomplishing the look you want.
[QUOTE
I see it as a very inexpensive way to come very close to owning a 150yr old relic, that I can actually shoot without worrying about 150yr old metallurgy. If you think that makes me "stupid or gullible", so be it. ][/QUOTE]
No matter what you do or don't do to these Piettas or Ubertis- they are not the real deal so you are not any closer to owning a 150 yr old relic.
Yes the old charcoal and rust bluing was time intensive, and was quite good for it's time and still is. But modern "bluing" or anodizing is still a more durable process.
Things improve over time.
I don't think I said it was stupid to buy it already done.
I believe it is a waste of money to have the factory do something most of us are quite capable of doing ourselves for a lot less money.
Mot of us do have the time. a small TV tray with the needed stuff while you are watching tv will suffice in the defarbing aspect. Give you the chance to get front and personal with your gun. Everybody finds the time to clean them after shooting, same thing. I only reload 2 calibers today 44 mag and 7mm mag, because that is what I shoot. I save a few bucks, I have fun doing it, I know each load is consistent which helps me to be a better shot. I don't look at it as a chore.
Changing oil same thing. I KNOW it was done right and with the product I prefer.
sometimes I have it done because I just don't want to do it. Or I can kill two birds with one stone. Drop it off and go shopping while it is being done.
You say for you you don't have the time working 365. Yep been there done that when I had my own oil field shop and service company. So some things had to take aside.
But my basic point is still valid.
Pietta just came up with a new marketing gimmick to hopefully boost sales.
Trying to make their new replica look like it is old by pre-aging it for us.
Which is fine. BUT IT IS STILL A BRAND NEW GUN IT IS NOT A 150 YR OLD RELIC.
But for me and I did say for me, a waste of money. For $5 to $10 in material and a couple hours time I can achieve the same basic look. Or after a couple years of regular shooting and not trying to keep it pristine looking, obtain the same thing.
And I accomplish something else while I am doing it, so once again killing two birds with one stone. which btw I did one time kill two antelope with one shot.

 

[CraigC]

To me it's a waste of money. They will age normally if you use them enough, or if you help them along with vinegar mustard steel wool etc, then you have the satisfaction of a job well done and can be proud of your skills in accomplishing the look you want.

I really don't know why this is so hard for some people to understand. We're repeating ourselves here. Again, YOU CANNOT PUT 150YRS WORTH OF AGE ON A REVOLVER JUST BY USING IT!!! Especially if your "using" is spread out amongst four dozen different revolvers. The aging process, done right, involves a lot more than just stripping the finish. Having actually done a good bit of research for my leatherwork, many of these aging methods involve muriatic acid and other caustic chemicals and that's something that would make it very easy for an individual to screw up, if they even wanted to tackle it. What you don't seem to get is that I have actually learned how to do this very thing and I would still rather spend $60-$100 for a factory aged finish. I can buy a properly aged sixgun. I can't buy properly aged leather hardware, tin cones, copper cones, metal beads, buckles, rivets, etc.. What you don't realize is that your statements are a bit of an insult to those who have learned the art of artificially aging this stuff. It's not something you accomplish by simply rubbing vinegar or mustard on something new. It is an art, a true art and it's not learned overnight.

If that's how you want to spend your time and you'd rather spend a day or two to save $60, have at it. I'll gladly spend the $60 to spend that time doing something else.

No matter what you do or don't do to these Piettas or Ubertis- they are not the real deal so you are not any closer to owning a 150 yr old relic.

Exactly! It's a relatively inexpensive replica so it can be used without worry of damaging or losing a 150yr old relic. It's also a brand new gun made of modern steels, so it shoots like a new gun and can be used without worry of 150yr old metallurgy. It's a brand new gun, not a worn out, 150yr old relic that needs a lot of work and scarce replacement parts. And hell yeah, it's a lot closer to a 150yr old relic than your standard replica. For many, it's as close as we'll ever get. I don't have a problem spending old Colt money. I just have a problem spending old Colt money on a gun I can't shoot with complete impunity.

Yes the old charcoal and rust bluing was time intensive, and was quite good for it's time and still is. But modern "bluing" or anodizing is still a more durable process.

I don't know where you get your information but no, it isn't. It's cheaper and easier but it is not better or more durable. Both charcoal and rust blue are more durable than modern hot salt bluing.

I don't think I said it was stupid to buy it already done.

That's exactly what you said and it set the tone for every response since.

Cabelas and Pietta are plting on the stupid and gullibles out there

I believe it is a waste of money to have the factory do something most of us are quite capable of doing ourselves for a lot less money.
Mot of us do have the time. a small TV tray with the needed stuff while you are watching tv will suffice in the defarbing aspect. Give you the chance to get front and personal with your gun. Everybody finds the time to clean them after shooting, same thing. I only reload 2 calibers today 44 mag and 7mm mag, because that is what I shoot. I save a few bucks, I have fun doing it, I know each load is consistent which helps me to be a better shot. I don't look at it as a chore.

For one thing, I'm not going to sit in my living room, on our expensive furniture, handling caustic chemicals and stinking the place up. If it's worth doing, then it's worth doing right and to do it right requires full attention. I never work on guns or leather while I'm distracted.

As I said, these are choices we must all make for ourselves and our own circumstances. At some point you have to realize that your time is better spent doing other things.


How do you think these tin cones got from shiny fresh tin to old and crusty looking? It took three days using several nasty chemicals.




Would this knife and warhawk by John Cohea have the same appeal if they were not aged?






Same for the late, great Chuck Burrows' work, which inspires my own.

 

[daboyleroy]

Great looking beading

 

[jdavis123]

Raising an old post from the dead....
Craig has got some fantastic looking items. I love the aged look and bead work as well as the leather. Beautiful stuff! Makes me want to order an “Old West” 1851 revolver.

 

[arcticap]

I will go out on a limb and speculate for just a minute that it's possible the there's more than just a cosmetic difference between the "Old West" 1860 and their standard production 1860 model.
Did Mercury cars have the same number of defects as their twin Ford models?
The Mercury's did cost more and may have had some extra trim.
But what could have also set them apart is that the production line may have been slower leading to more careful assembly.
It's the same with rimfire ammo.
The .22LR ammos that costs more also have the slowest production rates which leads to more precisely made ammo.
That principle holds true even when all of the components are made by the same company and made on the same machines.
After they test a lot of ammo, the "rejected lots" are sold under their next lower tier label (Eley).
If we consider that not all Pietta 1860 models are built on the exact same assembly line, and not as many are being built by as many workers, then there may be more time spent on their fit & finish.
There may be different employees making them, or working on different shifts.
Some employees may have more experience, do a better job and with less defects and more attention to detail.
The only way to really know for sure is if we can amass enough reviews from buyers who can attest that they are indeed better made guns.
Otherwise, I'm just shooting the breeze.
But let me ask this question, if you were a production manager who was in charge of producing a more expensive model, wouldn't you want
your better & more experienced employees working on those more expensive guns to help keep the defects & complaints to a minimum?
In some parts of the world, consumers are paying a lot more for the same models that we can get from Cabela's at what they would consider to be discount prices.
One would think that they would be even more discriminating about paying the higher prices

 

[Cowhide Cliff]

You missed the point. I'm quite aware that I can take one of my finished guns, strip the finish and beat it up. I've contemplated it many times. My point is that these guns are meant to replicate a 150yr old relic. Not a newer old gun that's been carried for 20yrs. I've been carrying guns for 30yrs and I have never put that kind of wear on one. Why would I start now? Start dropping it every so often? Drag it behind my UTV? No. Maybe we don't place the same value on our time. A day's worth of work is worth a lot more than $60 to me and I can get a lot of leatherwork done in that time. So I'll gladly pay a little extra for the factory "Old West" finish or Cimarron's "original finish". In fact, my next sixgun will probably be a Uberti "Old West" .45x7½", like this 4¾". If that makes me "stupid or gullible", so be it.

View attachment 755732

I have a Model P with that finish that I picked up along the way and did not like it at first, it's just a gun in the white essentially. I wound up rubbing some cold blue on it and now it does have the appearance of a well used gun and starting to take on a nice patina after shooting a lot of BP through it.

There is no reason to pay much extra for that original finish because you can take some vinegar and a rag to any gun and strip the finish off, that is all the Old West finish is, a gun in the white with what appears to be some minor etching of the surface.

The original finish are not "beat up" a gun stripped with vinegar looks almost exactly the same, I've done it a few times, a friend of mine and I did three of his guns, two pistols and a model 73 uberti rifle just last winter in my shop.