Pirates and Idiots

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My last year of law school as part of my admiralty class, an easy A, my group had to do a presentation on piracy. That was more than 5 years ago and this same debate was on going. Piracy has never really stopped. Somalia has been an active safe haven for piracy for years now and will continue to be until someone cleans out that den of thieves and cutthroats. My real question is why has the US press decided it is an issue at this point. Not that I am a conspiracy theorist but it doesn't pass the smell test that it suddenly needs attention when it has been a problem for a long time.
 
Ok, how about this... Follow the gun laws of the country of registry. When in port guns are secured and the responsibility of the captain. A list of arms can be provided and inspections can be made, but the weapons can't be taken or crew detained because of differing laws. This way at sea they can defend the ships.
 
Most ships are registered in Liberia or Panama.
Do these names seem familiar?

Congratulations to the Indian Navy ship.
Luckily for them the pirates opened fire first.

Did the Indians use anything larger than the 30 mm cannons, and at what range?
 
I'm a Merchant Sailor, and I think I can constructively add to this thread.

I saw a few questions worth answering..

1) Q: Why is the media all of the sudden on this like white on rice?
A: The frequency of attacks, as well as the types of "targets" that have been taken. Both have escalated severely in the past year since Somalia's government is no longer effective.

2) Q: Why use a Ipod to defend yourself?
A: Well, it's 100% legal everywhere, and gets the job done most of the time. The LRAD (Long Range Acoustic Device) can cause permanent hearing loss if you're not careful operating it. The "Tone" that it emits for deterrence causes extremely uncomfortable feelings inside your body cavity, making a lot of people jump into the water (at least it did in my company's test of it). Now, when the pirates realize it's only sound, they can come back a second time prepared, or just start shooting RPG's at you from a distance.

The whole point is that Pirates look for easy targets. If all your "access points" have razor wire, you have firehoses ready to spray, an attentive watch team, and a lot of deck lighting turned on, the pirates will not even bother. This has been shown. 95% of the ships that have been captured were too relaxed. They were easy targets.

3) My standpoints:

I would LOVE for my company to say "ok, get some guns" (and we have on more than one occasion gotten shotguns and/or "blackwater type" security teams for SD of pirates) But the fact is most places we NEED to pull in, WILL NOT allow us to if we have even a single firearm on board. So far the only ports that have allowed it was Port Suez, and some port in the UAE...

For now, seeing I'm not allowed any firearms, I've collected a few personal defense items that I keep in case the SHTF. I have a 75mw laser pointer to blind, a few pocketknives that are kept "shaving sharp" and balanced for throwing, and next to the door in my room is a really heavy chain. I know none of these are all that great vs an AK, but at least it's something. It only takes one pirate not paying attention to get his throat slit and then I have an AK... One vs 4-5 is great odds when they are all spread out, I know the ship, and they do not.

I'd like to think I could "Rambo" this if it came down to it, but I realize I'm a mortal man who can screw up too. I often wonder if anyone else on my ship would actually help if I started to fight back.

So, "lets arm all our ships with M2's and lots of other guns"? Yep, the average mariner is going to be able to handle those with military proficiency. Sure, there's a few former military on these boats (myself included) but do we really want to chance taking offensive action (rather than evasion) when most people out here would probably shoot themselves in the foot when staring down an enemy barrel.

I'm not against it, but it's just not practical.

The only thing we can do is get more Naval involvement to the point of setting up Convoys and Escorts, a la WWII. Nobody passes this point until this date, and when you all go, there will be a few destroyers with you.

Problem solved.
 
International law forbids arming merchant ships while private armed fighting ships have the legal status of being pirates. The letters of Marque idea is banned under the Agreement of Paris from the late 1840s also. Pretty much international laws at sea are like D.C gun control laws,only the good guys follow them.
 
Having done some sailing over the years. Guns are not illegal on the open seas, can carry a howitzer if you can get on your boat. It's the ports that nail you, and every port that I'm aware of will not allow guns on your person or boat when you dock. The one gun you can have is the 12ga that shoot a life line from one ship to another for rescue. I also know one sailor who decided to enter Canadian waters and was checked. He had a gun on board and he lost his gun and boat.
The US is the only country I'm aware of where you can carry a gun aboard your own boat.
 
A friend of mine ( we grew up hunting and fishing together, and were awarded our Eagles together) is/was a ships captain. He hauled oil up the west coast for a good while, on big tankers. He told me his policy for his crew was exactly in line with Zombienerd. Mostly because he can not be sure that everyone is the kind of person he wants armed at sea.

However, in a recent conversation about piracy, he said, you can't let them near the boat. Pick a smart course, good crew on watch, simple defense as deterrence, and he had a few surprises for bad guys. His idea was to pick the moment and maximize knowledge of conditions to even the field.

Zombienerd has expressed the same basic concepts. Awareness and preparedness first, resources positioned for the SHTF situation.
 
I forgot to mention that certain vessels (such as the ones I'm on) are highly unlikely to be boarded if you see them coming. My ships are extremely maneuverable, we have two bow thrusters (one is 360 degree) and two stern azimuth (360) thrusters, we can spin this ship in circles without changing our position. If a small craft comes along side to board, it is our policy to try to run them over. We can swing our bow or stern, or both at the same time, extremely quickly... Faster than most guys could throw the grappling hook.

It's quite fun to watch too :) but you can get dizzy if they go full throttle with it.
 
Good work, India!

It is time they carried a Big Stick in their oceans. Indian hegemony on the high seas. There is a vaccum into which they project their power and take a seat among the greater nations on the world stage.
 
Yeah, good for India. Saw an Indian spokesperson on TV and he seemed to have more cahones than any of the americans/western europeans.
 
The US is the only country I'm aware of where you can carry a gun aboard your own boat.
Click to expand...
The US is not much better for those not citizens of the US, meaning it really is no different as a nation. Foriegn vessels cannot simply import weapons into the US by having them on thier vessel.

Some other nations will allow thier own citizens to have weapons on thier vessels. So the US really sets no unique example.

A few nations friendly to firearms just changed recently.
Yemen for example was very friendly towards small arms until earlier this year. Now the government is extremely anti-gun. Almost a complete reversal.
Yemen if you look at a map is just on the other side of the Gulf of Aden, across from Somalia.
A coincidence?
If you were a vessel traveling through the Gulf of Aden, and you chose to be well armed, entering ports in Yemen should have been no problem.
Now that has changed, with Yemen seeing international pressure to crack down heavily on legal gun ownership. The government has responded by doing exactly that. It has gone from a place with more firearm freedoms than even the US, to practicly outlawing arms, and arms dealing altogether this year.

The number of ports a private vessel with arms could enter decreased further.

Europe and even antis in the US are hard at work increasing gun control laws and attitudes throughout the world.
Gun rights groups should be just as diligent. The UN has also been drafting many laws, and has influenced the US gun laws significantly. ITAR restrictions stem directly from UN pressures.
ITAR restrictions are then enforfed by the ATF.
(Small arms restrictions really are a strong abuse of ITAR, as it was imposed to allow restriction of things like classified material.)
 
...

Sounds like a THR squad is forming - to be sent to the somali coast.

All .308 calibered equipment is welcome,
also .50bmg rifles.

(bring cleaning equipment for saltwater is corrosive)

Maybe the pirates stockpile of 7.62 x 39 ammo
could be our booty :)

Hi Ho! Lock & Load.
 
Uh, dude, it's Somalia. If we're going to take on the pirates, why not just take the whole darn country?
 
To discourage pirates a few warships camoed as ''cargo ships'',armed to the teeth [kinda the same concept as Air Marshals] might be a good idea.
 
''...Uh, dude, it's Somalia. If we're going to take on the pirates, why not just take the whole darn country?''

True,but why would we want it?
 
Sounds like it is time for some of the Lloyds Of London top board of directors membership to become part of the crew on a tanker.

Betting their policy would change PDQ after a few of their top dogs sat in the Somalia Pirate HQ {ahem} "Hospitality Suite" for a while....

If the US Navy is going to get involved, maybe it is time to 'un-mothball' some of those WWII PT-Boats. IIRC, those boats had depth charges (not really needed here) flip-over torpedo tubes, some asorted .30 & .50 cal Brownings, and 40MM Bofors Cannons.
 
This is one _____ world we're living in if third world incompetents from a primitive hellhole in Africa are allowed to pose any threat to shipping vessels. A hundred years ago, there would have been no question as to what should be done with them. Their boats would have been sunk and any who managed to survive would have been captured and executed. Nowadays with the tolerant, enlightened one-world government, we have to think about the pirates' feelings. It's just not fair to them to shoot at them with big bad evil scary guns. We should just let them have their way and rape our ships.

India is a primitive and economically deprived country but they have one thing that the "first world" does not have anymore - balls. The first world needs to take a page from the playbook from India, the Arabs, and other people of the East who still live by an efficient, if brutal, code of justice. Europe ties its own hands with their laws - and if Barack Obama becomes president, we'll probably have our own American ships bending over backwards to be kind and tolerant to the pirates (who are, after all, just trying to make a living for themselves because they've been oppressed by the evil white Western world.)

I say - bring back the Teddy Roosevelt mentality in all areas of government. But Europe is far beyond ever having anything like that. They have been too dominated by socialism and one-world-ism for too long.
 
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loads of merchant crews are cheap dirt cheap and barely trained 20 crew on a super tanker?
thats enough to run it but not to stand an effective anti piracy watch if the ship owners want to pay for more crew like thats going to happen:uhoh:
 
I think the world is missing a great opportunity.

The largest ship currently held is a Saudi ship, as are several others.
The pirates have attacked the Islamic empire.
We should unleash worldwide Islamic anger upon the pirates. Allah Akhbar!
 
Golden Hound said:
India is a primitive and economically deprived country
Click to expand...

While I appreciate the point you were trying to make in your entire post, this statement simply isn't true and is kind of insultory towards India. They're nothing like they were even a decade ago.
 
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